Surrendering Control, Trusting Yourself and Taking a Leap of Faith
Season 4, Episode 12
Featured guest: Amani Roberts, Chief Musical Curator at The Amani Experience
Are you willing to release control and embrace the unknown? Amani Roberts, chief musical curator at The Amani Experience, shares his journey of personal development and the lessons he learned along the way.
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Meet Our Guest
Amani Roberts is a Washington, D.C.-born and bred creative, a Howard
University graduate who has been a DJ since 2008. Amani currently lives in Los Angeles, and is the chief musical curator for his entertainment and production company, The Amani Experience. He is also a partnered Twitch streamer and produces four live-streaming shows weekly.
Amani has produced remixes of numerous popular artists such as Sade, Usher, SZA and Leela James and hosts a weekly podcast called “Adventures in Business” with his co-host Mandi Graziano, where he interviews creative professionals from all over the world. Amani is also an award-winning professor at Cal State University - Fullerton (CSUF), teaching Entertainment Operations and Music Business in the School of Business & Economics, as well as serving as the executive director of the Center for Entertainment & Hospitality Management.
In 2022, Amani was honored as the School of Business & Economics Outstanding Part-Time Faculty Award winner. Amani graduated from Berklee College of Music (Boston) with a Master's in Music Business with a GPA of 4.0. He was named one of Meeting Professional International's “50 Up & Coming Event Professionals”. Amani’s first book, DJs Mean Business: One Night Behind The Turntables Can Spin Your Company’s Success was released in April 2020. He is working on his second book, which examines the disappearance of Black R&B groups.
Connect with Amani
More About Our Host:
Courtney believes that transforming past experiences into impactful conversations through raw, authentic storytelling challenges the status quo, connects people from all walks of life and results in great change for the world.
- Courtney is the youngest member to have ever been elected to Meeting Professionals International’s (MPI) International Board of Directors
- She is the recipient of Smart Meetings’ Entrepreneur Award, MeetingsNet’s Changemaker Award, the Association for Women in Events (AWE) Disruptor Award, the MPI Chairman’s Award and MPI RISE Award.
- Named Collaborate and Connect Magazine’s 40 under 40 and a Meetings Today Trendsetter.
- Recognized as one of the event industry’s most impactful change-makers.
- Serves on the Events Industry Sexual Harassment Task Force, AWE’s Board of Directors, MPI’s Women’s Advisory Board, is a Meetings Mean Business Ambassador and is the co-founder of the award-winning movement, #MeetingsToo.
- Named as a 2020 Meetings Trendsetter by Meetings Today.
Connect with Courtney:
Transcript:
Editors note: The following transcription was facilitated by AI program Otter.ai and proofed by our editors. Although it is very accurate, there inevitably will be some mistakes, so please consider that when reading. Thank you.
Courtney Stanley
Hello everybody, this is Courtney Stanley and welcome to another exciting episode of Dare to Interrupt, the only podcast made by women for women in the world of events, hospitality, tourism and beyond. We hope you feel empowered as you engage in these honest unfiltered conversations with leaders who are considered to be the most influential, inspiring and innovative leaders today. Throughout their careers, these leaders have dared to interrupt conversations, their own comfort zones, and sometimes even societal norms to hustle toward their greatest levels of success. Once a year, we feature a male perspective on our show to shake things up and of course, engage our allies. I am thrilled to introduce you to today's guest here with us. We have Amani Roberts, chief musical curator at the Amani Experience. Amani, how are you?
Amani Roberts
I'm doing well. Thank you very much for making me your honorary male for the year of 2023. I appreciate it.
Courtney Stanley
How does that make you feel the one and only for 2023?
Amani Roberts
I'm flattered. I'm honored. I'm excited. So thank you.
Courtney Stanley
Well, I'm happy to have you here. And I was surprised to see the title that you shared with me was chief musical curator when I know that you do so much more. You're an author. You're a speaker. You're a professor. You're a DJ. And you were also the digital host for MPI during MPI WEC. 2023 this past year in Mexico. How do you do so much and not get burned out?
Amani Roberts
Yeah, that's a good question. I tried to bucket my time. I do get burned out. I need to get work on my sleep. But I really just try to bucket my time and try to stay as organized as possible, use whatever methods I have. And you know, it's okay that I do a bunch of things. They're all related to the music industry, whether it's the speaking, DJing, professing, teaching or writing. So it's all related. It's just kind of different offshoots from that. I try my best to manage my time, but sometimes I'm good at it. Sometimes I'm not.
Courtney Stanley
What is your favorite hat to wear with all of the different roles that you play professionally?
Amani Roberts
Professor, I love being a professor. That's just, you know, my happy place. And you know, for the longest time, I stayed as far away from it as possible, but I'd say professor one, and then everything else number two. I love DJ, I've been doing for, like 17 years now. And so you know, it's just different. Being a professor, it has an impact, and I see the results, and I get a lot from it. Even when I'm giving.
Courtney Stanley
I forgot that I was supposed to call you Professor Roberts in this conversation, my favorite name of yours, professor. What would you say is the most joyful thing that's happening in your life right now?
Amani Roberts
I would say the most joyful thing is a combination of two things. Number one, it took me about three years to create this music business class at Cal State University Fullerton. And this has been the first semester—we're coming to the end of the first semester—it's gone extremely well. The students have learned a lot, they’ve given me good feedback, and you can see the depth of their learning. And that's probably one of my favorite things that's happened this year. Then, combined with like moving moving from L.A. to Las Vegas very quickly. I think those are probably the two most exciting things that are currently going on for me.
Courtney Stanley
That’s super exciting, especially the new class. I'm sure that's rewarding to see students go through it for the first time. What do you like about Vegas do far? I know we have lots of industry friends that live in the city and we get to see them every time we visit for IMEX or other shows. What your take? What's your take on Vegas? And what are you liking about it?
Amani Roberts
So my take so far, it's quiet. That seems kind of funny to say but like, so if you live outside The Strip, it's pretty quiet. If there's more space, so when I say there's more space, I'm talking about like physically, just I live in a bigger place than I had before. My neighbors aren't on top of me compared to before but then also emotionally, it's just more space for me to be creative, to just be spread out. So you can drive long patches of road and it's dark or whatever, it kind of reminds me of not a country town, but it's definitely not the hectic buzz of a city. But once you get to The Strip, it's very, very hectic.
I think the food here is amazing. You definitely have to make sure you get your workout days in because there's always good food to eat and everything. So that's exciting. The weather, the weather is nice, although right now it's a little cooler than I anticipated, but ask me in August and I'm sure I’ll have a different story. That'd be really hot. But yeah, it's just different and I'm feeling it and I know it's been a month but I'm excited and looking forward to it.
Courtney Stanley
What do you feel inspired your move from L.A. to Vegas because you were in L.A., for how many years? Yes, yeah, that's a long time. And that's a big change to go, you know, to a completely new place and start over after living somewhere else for so long. So what inspired the move?
Amani Roberts
I think there were a couple factors like in L.A., in particular, as an entrepreneur, like I found it, it's expensive to live there. So it's really hard to build wealth. And so I was really trying to save and invest. I was fortunate to be able to buy a place when I got there in 2007. But you kind of want to start stacking and buying more things; I just couldn't get there. When I got there I worked for Marriott, left, took a 65-70% pay cut. I work for myself. I was building back up the earnings and then the pandemic hits, so then you kind of have to take a reset. So that was probably one kind of reason or inspiration behind the move.
I'd been there like six and a half years, that was the longest I've ever lived in one city as an adult, because I've lived everywhere, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Miami, back to D.C., L.A. So it was a long time. And I kind of felt that change is good. The pandemic was tough for me personally, just with being isolated, then I was in a relationship, and then that ended and didn't go the best. And so I think it just all these things, kind of a perfect storm. Where, okay, let's see where you can move to because I had a list of six cities and Vegas was on the list. And I said, let's go to Vegas, that's where I did some research. And it made sense.
Courtney Stanley
When you were in that process of figuring out or kind of even just sensing the need to shake things up to make a change to potentially move somewhere new, were you overwhelmed by the idea of making such a big change? Were you afraid of making the wrong decision? What was that experience? Especially if you know there are people in our audience who are tuning in that are maybe starting to get that edge where they feel like they've made it comfortable for too long, or they've been coasting for too long. And they want to make a big change, like moving or changing jobs or whatever that may be? What was going on in your head at that time?
Amani Roberts
I was definitely comfortable. I was definitely scared, you know, still probably a little scared. But it's kind of going away. You mentioned we were together when I was at WEC in Cancun. So this summer compared to any summer in the last five years, I did a lot of traveling. I went to Cancun for WEC, I went to Chicago for a wedding, Minnesota for a writing retreat, I went to a conference in Orlando, visited friends in North Carolina. And one more place I'm trying to remember. But I just started to think as I was traveling, more out here. I'm really comfortable in L.A.. And I wasn't really growing anymore. As much as I wanted to, I hit kind of a plateau. And I was like, I need to kind of push myself to do more. And incorrectly, I had thought that you know, I was too old to move. You know, I'm 49 years old. And I let someone kind of get in my head about my age and getting old. And then you're worried about growing old alone. I was like, how am I going to move to another city and have to start all over again? That was the fear that kind of held me back. And I was like, No, I can't do that.
But then as I was traveling and talking to people, I was like, hmm, actually, I think I could do that, it could work and then I just started to research. And then some things started to make sense. And then you're trying to figure out how you're going to change your business to do that. But the good thing about Vegas is that I'll probably be busier between the speaking and the DJ, because there's more events here than like L.A. Most events I did last year, I was outside of L.A. anyways. So I put all that together. But I still was unsure. But then things just started to happen so fast. I was like, Okay, let's just kind of go with it and embrace it. And let's, let's see what happens if that kind of takes you to where I am today.
Courtney Stanley
I appreciate that. You've told me in sidebar conversations that it just feels aligned, like you're in the right place, or you made the right move, or it just feels like a weight has been lifted from your shoulders. And I think it's really interesting that you mentioned that somebody had gotten in your ear about being too old to move somewhere new and the fear that was attached with that comment or that was inspired by that comment. And it's funny because when I moved to Detroit, a year ago, a little over a year ago, I felt the same way. I knew I needed to change and I knew I needed to do something different. But I didn't have any desire to start over because it can be such a lonely thing moving to a new city, especially as you know, you're not a college student. You're not someone who's maybe going in the same way that you used to when you were younger, it's a different experience. So I can definitely understand that mentality of wanting to do something new, but also kind of hearing whether it's your inner critic or hearing commentary from other sources that are saying, maybe not the best idea.
Amani Roberts
Yeah, like, even like, and when I did this move, I told my brother, that's probably the only family member I told it to, because even other outside sources that are close to could be like, Oh, well, why are you going to leave L.A. and it's so busy there and just people get their own insecurities and try to project it onto you. And so the only time is once I got here, and I finally settled, the first day, I sent the video and said, Hey, I'm in a new place. So it's kind of funny.
A lot of times, the people that are closest to us, they really feel, and they project their fears onto us. And we kind of internalize it, and we don't want to disappoint them. Because they love us, and they want to be there for us. But sometimes you just have to, it's very cliche, but you kind of have to run towards the fear. So for me, I was scared of moving, I was too old and yet, ran right to it. And so far, so good. But I've seen many, many other people let fear kind of stop them in their tracks and let insecurity kind of prevent them from trying things that they want to do. And I said, I won't let myself fall into that same trap. So here we are.
Courtney Stanley
What would you say that you are most afraid of right now, in this chapter,
Amani Roberts
This chapter is probably one of the biggest fears that I'm working on. It's just kind of like growing old, alone. Single guy here in Vegas, I'm sure it'll be fun. But that's when you use that fear. And then we all struggle with comparison. So if I'm comparing myself to my friends who are married with kids, who are in college, and here, I'm just a single dude, same age, just chilling, you're like, Ooh, you know, I mean, is this gonna be like how it is going to be forever. So I'm working on that. That would be, currently, the biggest, biggest fear I have.
I don't have any fear of not being successful, or like Vegas, this move not being successful, or like health wise, I feel very confident that I have good lifestyle, and I can do the things I need to do to be successful network, meet people and be healthy. But it's just that one little thing. It's like the little devil on your shoulder that's like, you know, kind of taunting you. And of course, one thing to work through that is that if someone is saying, Oh, you're getting older, or kind of taunting you, you listen to that, but you keep moving straight for that, and you don't let that stop you from making decisions. That's what I've learned.
Courtney Stanley
Well, I appreciate you being so open and honest about what you're experiencing in life right now. I think a lot of people tuning in, will appreciate that, and also relate to that, too. And I love your advice about continuing to just move forward and just take steps forward, no matter what devil is sitting on your shoulder, inner critic is saying in your ear. So I think that's absolutely brilliant. And it's interesting, because I'm single as well, which I know, you know, and the way that I look at it is everything that is in my control. So things like you mentioned, like health or you know, friendship or your business, like those, you know, I feel great about those things. And if I don't feel great, I know I can change it tomorrow. But it's interesting to think about how you feel about the lack of control. So things like finding your person or whatever that may mean to you. So let me ask you this question. Do you feel like you want to be in control more often than not?
Amani Roberts
Yes, I would say absolutely. Yes. However, when I was in control before sort of, it might not have gone the best way it could have gone. When you like, when you make a decision, and you stick with that decision, and you ignore red flags, or pink flags, because you really are focused on making sure this happens. You want to be in control and this job has to work out or this relationship has to work out. Really, you don't want to be in control because that's how you'd get yourself in trouble where you kind of have to let the universe work for you. And get in tune with that before, so I'm working and I've learned to kind of let things go. Of course you want to put yourself out there if we're talking about dating or you want to be soliciting and trying to grow your business if you're talking about growing your business or looking for a new career. But you kind of got to just put your best foot forward, be the best version of yourself and move forward and whatever is going to happen is going to happen. Cause I got in trouble before trying to force things and it didn't turn out.
Courtney Stanley
Talk to us about that situation. What were you trying to force?
Amani Roberts
A relationship, so to speak. And, you know, there were obvious warning signs, but Amani chose to ignore the obvious warning signs and proceed down the pathway, and then ended up getting you know, feelings hurt, and it just doesn't work out. You have to kind of rebuild your confidence, because you know, something's happening like, Ooh, well, maybe I'm not a good confidant or your self-worth—you go through kind of maybe a toxic relationship and your self-worth has been severely diminished, you have to build that up. And but in order for you to build that up, you have to recognize where you might have made some mistakes, and where you can improve with your communication with paying attention, all sorts of things. So to have to go through that. It was rough. We're December now, but a year ago, that was not in a good place.
I'm shocked that if we look at a year ago, to December 2022, to now I'm shocked at how far I've come and how much work I had to do to get here. Because this work was not easy. And it didn't make me feel good. It made me feel bad, and made me feel insecure, and a lot of questioning yourself, but you have to go through that. So now when I'm coming out the other side, I'm so much better, smarter, more in tune with myself a better communicator. So that's kind of just this a synopsis of what I went through, and then some of the growth and the work that had to happen.
Courtney Stanley
Yeah, and I think what I'm hearing that I can relate to quite well is, again, not for saying things that aren't meant to be. And I think you referencing the red flags, that pink flags like that stuff is real, you know, whether you feel that it's your intuition, or you're just observing things. And those things are very real. And I will say that I have recognized and I think I've broken this pattern to be honest, and actually feel very confident that I've broken this pattern now, because I was able to recognize that I was so wanting things to work out. And this is in multiple areas of my life. So if I think back to the second job that I had, and if I also compare that to the previous relationship that I had, I didn't want to give up, I had made the decision that this was it, this was the job, this was the man and I was going to make it work. And I would pour everything in my entire being into these environments, that actually were not the right environments for me. And what ended up happening is in both situations, it blew up in my face. And it was, I personally think that if you are unwilling to walk away from something that's not meant for you, it's going to break, somehow it's going to blow up, it's going to break the universe, God is going to redirect you toward a different path, because that path is not meant for you, but you're not listening and you're not stepping off.
So you're gonna get shoved from behind in a different direction, or you're gonna get, you know, the floor pulled out from under you because you have to move on and you're not willing to do so yourself. And I do think, again, I'm very much in a place now where if it's not right, it's not right. And I have learned to not second guess my intuition and really trust it. Not that I do that perfectly every single time. But I will make decisions a lot faster. Now, just knowing that if this doesn't feel right, it's not right. And I don't have to explain it. I don't have to understand the reason why. But I know if I keep going down this path, it's only going to feel even more wrong than it feels today.
Amani Roberts
I think you're 100% right. I think we have to trust our gut before we trust our hearts because our hearts will lead us astray. So the gut will never lie. When you go back and you review it, you realize what your gut was trying to tell you, you realize things like, yeah, I should have paid closer attention. Whether it be there's a client that you're working with, that you're not enjoying working with, but the money is good. So you want to stick with them. No money has no issues. No money is good enough for this client. Or it could be maybe like a partner that you're working with. But they're not treating you well. Or, for me if they're booking me maybe they're very selective when wen they booked me they're not honest or just things like that. And then you have the whole relationship side.
It's okay to step away and believe that something else better is going to come to you. Now, it's not linear when I say it's not linear. It's not like if we're talking about booking a program in February, say over Valentine's Day, but the client I'm working with is, I'm not feeling it, or it's just not going well. So I'm gonna say, You know what, I'm not available that day anymore. Maybe we can work together in the future, I'm gonna step away, there might not be a booking that comes to take that place for February 14. But maybe there's something else that comes in May or June, where I was able to have enough time and energy to focus on making a proposal or bidding on it that I would not have had if I had taken this other program. And so that's kind of what I've learned to accept about things aren't linear. Also, healing is not linear, either. I also see that too. So that's kind of just kind of, to piggyback on what you said.
Courtney Stanley
I think the word that comes to mind in this conversation is trust. It's trusting yes, your gut, it's trusting your intuition. It's trusting your previous experience. But it's also trusting that whatever will be, will be. And if you're not in a situation that is healthy for you, or the right thing for you, and you know, that deep down, it's trusting that there will be something better, that truly aligns with what you desire, who you are, where you're going your growth path, but it really comes down to trust, and it's trusting the unknown, it is taking control, throwing it out the window and saying, I don't know what's going to happen, but I know that it will all be okay. And it'll all work out.
Amani Roberts
You gotta have faith. And I think they say like, a lot of times we say, well, I'll believe it when I see it. But you can't think that way. You have to say if I see it, I believe it or I believe it when I see it. It's the opposite. I'll see it and then I'll believe in reverse. You have to see it first. And then it'll happen is what I'm trying to say I have to get my quotes, right. But yes.
Courtney Stanley
I think I see where you're going. Yeah, there's a bit of manifestation to their words, like, put it out there, speak it out loud, trust yourself, and then walk and see what happens. And I think that's also coming back to your move to Vegas. I think that's exactly what you did. You had a nudge, you followed your intuition. Things just started falling into place. That's why you know, you mentioned your move happened so quickly. Within what like a month you were, you just found a place you sold your place?
Amani Roberts
Yeah, that time period, I listed my place, it was very, it was less than 90 days between deciding listing your place, selling your place, finding a place closing moving with a dog arriving, setting up shop, like less than nine days, which is rapid, and I hate moving. And I wanted to avoid all things moving. But I had to get outside my comfort zone and be like, this could be good for you. Let's see what happens. Because you can always move back, you always go somewhere else. And you're never too old to do things like that. That talk is very toxic, and just very limited mindset, you must have the growth mindset where, I'll figure it out, and it will work out some way and it'll work out in my benefit.
Courtney Stanley
And if you know you need to do something, it's going to happen anyway, again, whether you decide to do it, or the universe decides to force you to do something else, it's going to happen anyway. So I really commend you for making such a vast change. Within 90 days, it took me a year and a half to move after knowing I needed to move. And a lot of that was because I didn't want to move somewhere. And for it not to work out, I didn't want to start over and then it didn't work out or it was a fail and then have to move somewhere new and start over again. But honestly, that's what life is. It truly is an experiment. It truly, truly is. It's a series of you trying things and it works out or it doesn't. But it's the journey of failing and succeeding and learning and winning and continuing to move forward. Now, I want to get back to something that you said earlier. So you were reflecting on where you were last December, so a year ago and where you are today, you mentioned that you are completely different. You're a completely changed person, and you did a lot of work to get to where you are today. What is that? What does that mean? What is this work that you have been invested in, in terms of your development?
Amani Roberts
So a lot of like self reflection, a good amount of therapy, I would say, a good amount of journaling, just writing, listening to different podcasts, reading different books that have been very helpful. I'm working on surrounding myself with people who can just be even more supportive, and to be there for me, but also, if I'm slipping, they have the utmost right to call me on my stuff. So surround myself with a better group of people spending less time on social media. I think that's near the top of the list like you know, not only like spending less time on like Instagram, or places like that, but trying to change your feed so you see less things that trigger you and maybe more positive things. I think that's continued to be a work in progress.
In terms of social media, I do spend a good amount of time on LinkedIn but that's for professional. So I enjoy that. I'm traveling a little bit more like I did the solo writing retreat to write my second book. But that was really good just to get away. But that was the first time I really got away from me. And I went to Minnesota for like five days, into Chicago for wedding just to get away, clear your head visit with friends who hadn't seen since pre-pandemic. So that's why that's what I mean, in terms of some of the doing the work. But really, it's therapy, the journaling, the reading the books, doing activities in the books, watching the specific podcasts, and then maybe, going for walks. I did so walks after dinner, and just so much work, where you're thinking about things you're listening to, you're writing. And when I say the work, that's what was involved.
Courtney Stanley
That's a lot of work. It may be but I think it's a really holistic way to self-discover, you know, to self-reflect, I think that whether it's podcasting or journaling, or taking time for yourself, or connecting with new people who support you in a different way. I mean, those are all really wonderful examples of different ways to approach introspection and growth. When you were doing all of this work, what do you feel like were the most game-changing personal lessons that you learned along the way? What were the things that you learned about yourself?
Amani Roberts
I think I learned that I have to work on my self-worth, I had to work on my self-worth, because it had been diminished so much. What I bring to the table is very valuable, I am the prize. I have a lot to offer. My skills are desired from people that can really want to have me teach them. I had to really improve my content confidence because it took a hit. Even like the act of writing letters to people who maybe have upset you in the past or have been, negative or toxic towards, you don't mail the letters, you just write them and put them away. But still, that was extremely effective, that was an extremely effective exercise. I hope I'm not talking to circles. But I think that's kind of my answer to that just the increasing self-worth increasing the confidence are probably the two biggest revelations and just believing in believing in myself again, because I had lost that and had to get that back.
Courtney Stanley
So we're in December, this is the final podcast of the year. So it's a time where most people will do some sort of reflecting and goal setting for the year ahead. What do you want your focus to be for your continued personal growth for next year? What's number one for you?
Amani Roberts
Number one, would be proud just to continue with the journaling, and continue to recognize all the good things that I accomplish each day, each week, each month, and not take those for granted. So if you make sure to write about those, and remember those because we forget it. And if you're in a tunnel for so long, you have your blinders on. So you don't see it. But definitely take into account the impact you're having on people, whether it be my clients, my students, my friends, and then try to get better, like continue to get better in terms of self-worth in terms of learning new skills, maybe learning how to communicate even better, and not being afraid to communicate, those are some things that you just want to continue to get better.
Courtney Stanley
You said this actually earlier in the conversation that you're excited to practice communication. What does that mean? It made me smile. And I was like, well, that's really cool. But what does that actually mean to you?
Amani Roberts
I'll give you two examples. Say you're working with a client, and you might be afraid to speak up because you don't want to lose that client. You don't want to piss them off, excuse my language, and make them mad and maybe not want to work with you anymore. But you need to be at a point where you feel confident enough to communicate so you know what I disagree with this and this is why I feel we should do this way and not be afraid of them leaving or not wanting to work with you or saying you know what, this is not working. I don't want to work anymore. Like get to a point where you're confident enough and you're secure enough where that have let that fear take over.
And then the second example would be if you're with a partner, and you don't want to be sitting in a place where you're afraid to communicate, or say what you feel or disagree or speak up for yourself, because you're afraid they're gonna leave you, break up with you, or just exit. I was at that point. And that's not very healthy. And I want to be in a place where I'm confident, secure enough that, I don't like what you said, and I don't think you say that again, then that's not going to work. This is how we can get better or, I disagree with your decision. And this is why I disagree, but you'd never want to be in fear, because you're not gonna say anything, and it's just gonna get worse. And so that's what I mean, when I say practice.
Courtney Stanley
And I think knowing the audience that we're speaking to what I'm hearing is some people pleasing. And I'm also hearing some codependent habits, which essentially just means that you consistently put others before yourself. So people pleasing and codependency definitely go hand in hand. And I think that those are both struggles that many, many people in our particular industry deal with on a frequent basis, especially the “saying no” part or just kind of pushing back. Like I'd rather do this, even if it's something simple, like, Oh, where do you want to eat? Just simple things like that. Are these things that you're trying to practice now, before you're in your future relationship or whatnot? Like, are there any small ways that you try to flex these communication muscles on the daily?
Amani Roberts
To go back, just identifying that I am a people pleaser, and I am codependent. That was a lot of the work early on, because I didn't really know much about people-pleasing and codependency and all that. So I had to research to read, to find out, oh, this is one of my issues, or I'm codependent, I can't do that. Or, you know, I need to work on that. That's another part of the work. So now to answer your question. Simply just you give a great example, like, Okay, let's go out to eat, you know, I really want to tell you, you know what, I don't really like the time too much about feeling tired. Can we try this? Or try that? Or how about we meet on Friday at 4pm your time and we have a call, then. You know, usually on Fridays, I try to kind of end my day by noon, how about we meet on Monday or Tuesday? Those are two little things that you can do just to say no, but offer an alternative. And then you practice and you kind of build that muscle or you lose the people-pleasing. So that would be two things that I do in my current daily life that helps me to practice now.
Courtney Stanley
Yeah, I definitely appreciate that a lot. Okay, so we are getting close to the end here. And I know you as a friend, as somebody who is just like the ultimate content consumer, you are constantly reading, you're listening to a lot of podcasts. I know we've sent some back and forth. What have been some of the best books that you've read that really helped you in this growth journey, or podcasts or anything else that would be potentially useful to people that are tuning in.
Amani Roberts
Okay, so books to read. I should pull off my shelf here, but we're not live. So I'll just tell it. So it's a book called Whole Again by Jackson Mackenzie. And that one talks about people-pleasing, toxic relationship, narcissistic relationships. That one was amazing. I read it almost exactly a year ago. I was flying back to D.C. for the holidays to be with family. And I was reading that book and on the plane. I was like, Oh my gosh, I was like, Yes, that's true. And the person next is like, are you okay, sir? Is everything okay? I said, Oh, yes. Let me explain. What else have I read? Like, um, Jay Shetty. So both his podcasts. I think he has some phenomenal episodes and phenomenal interviews. He does his podcast, his book, The Eight Rules of Love. I wish I need to finish but that book has been really good. I'm trying to look at my bookcase, which I put here and I'm just trying to see like, The Artist’s Way. Have you ever done The Artist’s Way? So this one is like your chapter a week, maybe with a friend or a colleague and you do different activities. I kind of do a speech kind of tied off of it, which talks about unlocking your creativity. But it really takes you back to when you are your most free and your most creative, which is as a child, and it kind of takes you through exercises every week just trying to get some of that back because we get through these patterns where we're working and where we've worked for other people and we we've kind of fallen into certain patterns and it helps to break the patterns and it helps to also unlock and bring us back to when we were at our most creative as a youth.
I'm Julia Cameron is the artist and those are the ones that come to mind right now keep thinking But Jay Shetty podcast is good. That's been really helpful. A couple other channels on YouTube have been helpful. Yeah, that's what comes to mind right now.
Courtney Stanley
Yeah. Jay Shetty, as you know, has been a huge inspiration to me over this past year as well. I got really, really into his podcast “On Purpose,” He has so many amazing guests on his show that are just such intelligent and experienced experts in their field on literally anything and everything wellness related, holistically. So not just the body, but the mind, the spirit community, literally everything that makes you, you. So I've really enjoyed his podcast, and I'm late to the game on this. But I just started listening to Oprah's podcast as well. And I mean, she's got, you know, the best of the best on her show, too. So those would be two that I would recommend. And I need to get out of my book, rut. I’m in a book rut! No, but The Artist’s Way, that actually sounds really appealing to me, because it has exercises to do, which I think are better for me to be able to feel like I'm doing something as I'm learning versus just consuming. So I think I could actually be a really good one for me, too.
Amani Roberts
Yeah, I think you'll love the artists way. There's two kind of main concepts that come from: it morning pages, which as soon as you wake up in the morning, you kind of journal write everything that's going on in your mind and downloaded. And then also you go on, like these artists dates, where you'll take yourself to a museum by yourself and do that, or you're going to the beach, and there's different days you do solo, to really kind of unlock your creativity, but just kind of work on your mind. And so those are two kinds of concepts that come from a book, but I swear by it, I've done it like two or three times, it can be very personal. And I love it. I think it's an amazing book. As you know, for my classes, we do an activity in the class. Usually it's either before spring break, or before Thanksgiving break, where instead of teaching the subject matter, we have artists way day. And so I bring in different concepts from the book and ask the students questions they share, I share, not be very personal, tell him what I'm going through. And at the end, I give two copies of the book, and copies of my book to the students that were the most vulnerable. And I send it to them and do that. And I think they love it too. And it's very different for them. So I think you're gonna like it.
Courtney Stanley
I think I'm gonna like it too. Yeah, I think I'm gonna like it too. Well, I would love to give you the opportunity to share any final words of wisdom or advice with the people who are tuning in, or if you want to think about it is as speaking to Amani in 2024. What would be that final piece of advice that you would want to share?
Amani Roberts
You know, it will probably be a little cliche, but still applicable, like, first of all, when people show you who they are, believe them
Courtney Stanley
Say that again!
Amani Roberts
Believe them because that is the same for a reason. So I appreciate Mya Angelou for sharing that. And I think I heard Jimmy Ivy, say this where you use fear as a springboard. So we all fear fear. That's, that's unavoidable. But instead of letting it prevent you from doing things, kind of walk towards it and use it as a springboard to get you to do things that you might not believe you can do, or you've been holding back and doing for a long time. And just let that be like your fuel. And you'll be so pleased and so pleasantly surprised at what you can do and where you can go in life. And I'm in the middle of kind of seeing that right now. And that will be the piece of advice I would leave your audience with.
Courtney Stanley
Well, I'm going to take that advice and apply it to my life as well. So it's great advice. And I just want to thank you so much money for spending time with me and for sharing your own personal stories and the wisdom that you've gained throughout your life and especially this past year. And audience of course, I want to thank you all for listening. Share what you learned from this episode with us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram by following @meetingstoday and at @courtneyonstage. And be sure to never miss an episode by subscribing to dare to interrupt on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts and more. Create your own path. Stay the course and keep daring to interrupt my friends. Until next time, bye.
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