Fast Forward: How Planners Can Use Technology to Improve Event Marketing
Fast Forward Season 1, Episode 3
On this episode of Fast Forward, host Logan Pratt interviews Dahlia El Gazzar, one of the leading voices in event and marketing technology to find out how planners can and should be utilizing new technologies to better market their events.
Dahlia El-Gazzar is one of the leading experts in event technology and the founder of DAHLIA+Agency, an event marketing agency that seeks to connect event planners with event technology companies. Dahlia is also a co-host of the “Cut the Sh*t. Cue the Genius.” show, where she regularly interviews guests who are on the cutting edge of the events industry.
About Fast Forward
Fast Forward is a new Meetings Today podcast hosted by Logan Pratt with a mission to shed light on the future of the meetings and events industry. Each month, Pratt and his guests will discuss and analyze the new technologies, trends and changes that may affect an audience of meeting and event planners, suppliers, speakers, educators, attendees and more. Fast Forward will feature industry experts on the cutting edge of innovation working to help push the industry forward. Tune in to "Fast Forward" to learn what trends and technologies are here to stay and how they will change the industry in the years and decades to come.
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Transcript
Editors note: The following transcription was facilitated by AI program Otter.ai and proofed by our editors. Although it is very accurate, there inevitably will be some mistakes, so please consider that when reading. Thank you.
Logan Pratt
Hello, and welcome to Fast Forward, a Meetings Today podcast that explores the future of the meetings and events industry. I'm your host, Logan Pratt. And this episode I am joined by Dahlia El Gazzar, one of the leading experts in event technology and founder of Dahlia + Agency, an event marketing agency that seeks to connect event planners with event technology companies. Dahlia is also a co-host of the “Cut the Shit, Cue the Genius” show, where she regularly interviews guests who are on the cutting edge of the events industry. Welcome to the show, Dahlia.
Dahlia El Gazzar
Thank you. Hi, Logan.
Logan Pratt
It's good to see you again! Yeah, so I want to start off kind of with your journey in the industry. How did you get interested in event technology? And how has your role in the industry grown and evolved over the years?
Dahlia El Gazzar
So I'm going to correct you on one thing, before I get into my journey, that I am not an expert. There is nobody that is an expert. And if they say they are or if they're a “guru,” I would totally question that. Because it's moving so fast, it’s just it's always evolving. And so the reason why I am in it, is because I am very curious about what platforms and solutions can enable event professionals. And I'm very nosy, and I nag a lot. And I call “BS” quite a bit in regards to platforms that say, “Oh, we're all-in-one,” or “We can do this,” or “We just, you know, designed something that can make you coffee in the morning.” And I'm like, “No, you didn't.”
But in all, you know, fairness and kidding aside, I think it came about where when I did start Dalia + Agency, and that was about 12 years ago. And I've worked in event tech companies like Passkey, and onPeak and others. I realized that with our users, and those that were using the platforms, technology was not an easy conversation to be had with them. And essentially, it also made their head hurt because it was changing very quickly. It also always impacted their business strategy… their everything that they know. Their SOPs, their processes, you know, how they can move forward, all of that.
And so I wanted our team to specialize more so in how to have the conversation with them, so that they can almost visualize the change, and the enablement, or the empowerment, that they can get from the technology. Not necessarily to understand how to use it, or like how to, you know, basically go in and dive into all the capabilities and modules and all of that. But to understand how they can move forward and just use technology as something that would enhance their SOPs, their processes. And I can't think of one thing, I was trying to figure this out… I can't think of anything that we do right now, like as consumers as humans, etc. that does not involve technology, do you? Can you think of anything?
Logan Pratt
Not really.
Dahlia El Gazzar
Exactly, but so that… the journey started where, you know, just the curiosity of technology, the curiosity of how to create amazing experiences. And then also asking the right questions from the suppliers. And helping the organizers, the buyers, have a better conversation with them. So…
Logan Pratt
Yeah, and I think you're right that so much of what we do now is just so… it's all done on the computer. Like, you know, anybody who gets a job gets immediately… The first thing they get set up on is a laptop. And that's just immediately kind of what you have to understand is… especially how to use it.
I also want to ask you, you've often been described as like the person who knows everyone in the industry. You kind of have a very large network of connections. And I think that's just come from you being around for so long. So like, how did you build such a large network of contacts and what is a piece of advice you would give for people looking to connect with more people in the industry and kind of build their own networks?
Dahlia El Gazzar
So my network is truly built on... It's a matter of hugs and reaching out. So I'll give you a couple of hints. I do make it my business to know everybody and just to see what their story’s about, where they are in their own journey. And I do give a lot of hugs and I take a lot of selfies at shows, that’s ffor sure. And I think that resonates with a lot of people in the industry. More so than anything, I consider myself like a net weaver, because I like to introduce people to others, even if they know them by name.
So if you're with me at a show, or like, even if I'm on a chat on a virtual event, I like to say, “Hey, Logan, you need to meet Tess, because Tess can do XY and Z,” or like… And I think this is a critical part of our industry. It should be for any other industry, but I mean, we're in this relationship business kind of thing. I make it, also, where I put time aside, where I'm always checking in on people. So like, my Fridays are like, quick text, or I send the selfies that I've taken with people, and I'll send them back to them just to you know, hopefully make them smile, etc. But I think I think the whole idea here is I have never really witnessed any industry, and we do a lot of conferences for different sectors, different industries, where people say, “I love you,” do hugs and kisses and you know, just want to be together as much as we do. That's why the bar scene at industry events is where everything happens.
Logan Pratt
Yeah, do you hold the opinion that it is… there's an old business adage that it's like, “it's who you know, not what you know,” do you hold that same opinion? And what do you consider the level between kind of knowledge about the industry and like, knowing how to do… you know, plan a great event, or, you know, knowing a lot about the industry versus knowing a lot of people in the industry in terms of overall success?
Dahlia El Gazzar
I honestly think it's a juggle between the two. You have to know how to do… And you have to have, you know, strong opinions of how to change things. You know, and we've been through it all. Like, it's a detriment if you think you know it once and it's going to stick and you're not going to change your playbook. And so the way that you'll be able to change your playbook and to think of other ways of how to do business, or how to design or how to put an event together, is who you depend on, and who's a credible source to come in. And you can ask them, “How do I change? What do I do? What's new? What's old?” Like, you know, and so I think it's a juggle between the two.
Logan Pratt
Yeah. And that's something that that I think, a lot of very successful people. Tout is that they, you know, are constantly learning from others as well. So having that giant network, as I'm sure like, Do you Do you find that as well, that you're constantly learning from others? And that's a benefit of...
Dahlia El Gazzar
Absolutely. And so this is where I think, you know, we need to do better as event profs, is to put time aside to really just have the conversations “Hey, Logan, what are you doing, you know, different on social media? What have you seen as different, you know, signals that we can use within the industry?” And also taking a look outside of our industry.
So like, you know, you'd be surprised if you just end up talking to someone that is in construction, or is in retail, or is, you know, doing branding for a product on TikTok. That you can learn from them that you can actually implement within your team or within your business. So what I'm trying to have, this is why I think the biggest component of a conference, which is the networking, is the most important. Even before, like, content, or you know, what key keynote speakers are taking the stage, etc. Is just the current conversations around the coffee, you know, it's like, “What can we what can we do better? How can we, you know, implement something totally different?” And it starts with the relationships and it starts with the conversations.
Logan Pratt
And I think that's something that surprises people about kind of, you know, the the business world and the corporate world when they first get into it. How many deals are done at bars or at the golf course you think it's all like, in conference rooms, or email but that's not how the majority of business gets done in reality.
Dahlia El Gazzar
Exactly. And I think the other thing to take a look at is when you go back to when you say credible sources… You know, when people come and they say “Oh, I'm an expert in such and such,” you see it right away. That, you know, they're like “Are you really?” Because like it's changing all the time. Like for right now. Nobody's an expert on AI, they can't be. It's always evolving. And like one expert on AI or one expert on virtual is not the same source for the same people.
So I dub all of us as perennials. Where, you know, it's not by age, it's not by just a generation, it's like you're totally curious all the time about different things. And you want to learn and you know, you're a life learner. I don't know if that's the right way to say it…
Logan Pratt
Yeah, like, a lifelong learner.
Dahlia El Gazzar
Exactly. You can't get enough of it. So…
Logan Pratt
Yeah, and so as a non-expert in technology, I do want to ask you about technology. But first, I do kind of want to get your opinion on something. Because we… Meetings Today and you have had a long history as well. And actually, I found an article about you that our good friend Tyler Davidson wrote back in 2016. And in that article, you made some predictions about event technology, and kind of what the hot trends were at the time. And so I'm wondering, like, eight years later, what you think about some of those predictions. But whether they came true, like whether you think they're still relevant to marketing events.
So in 2016, you said, “Hot tech trends in the near future include virtual and augmented reality, as well as interactive screens, capturing attendee behavior to create revenue generating data points for organizers, and live on site content curation. So I'm wondering if you still think those are relevant. And if those were predictions that you think came true, you know, 8 years later.
Dahlia El Gazzar
So that was in 2016, Logan. Come on, like… So here's my pet peeve about predictions and about trends. They're supposed to be guidelines, or like, they're supposed to be insights, or… You know… And the key word, what you just said right now is “hot.” So it's like, it was hot then. But what I worry about is, and you see this all the time, is even predictions from 2016, or trends from five minutes ago that someone published yet another trend report on social, is people think that they have to implement all of it or they fail. And I think the failure here is that you don't see it as signals, you don't see it as like, “Oh, it might not even fit your organization or your event.”
VR, AR, didn't fit a lot of organizations, and they tried really hard and they put a ton of money. And you know, they went the route of like, “We need to do this or else.” So, Corbin Ball’s, you know, predictions report is not coming to fruition. So I think what we need to make sure of, and I don't know if I'm answering your question directly, but like VR, AR, it exists. It's kicking ass in some sectors, it doesn't have to be for all sectors. So like, you know, and interactive screens? Yeah, you have to have some sign and kind of interactive… So even the key word there is interactive,” it's not only screens, right? But I don't know, like pulling it from 2016, and having like different things happen… And now like everybody's trying to predict and say the trend is AI, AI is not a trend. AI has been around forever and ever. I think the trend here is how you're implementing it, you know, for the sake of elevating your business or your events.
Logan Pratt
Yeah, Chat GPT and kind of all those are just the next iteration of AI. They're not… they aren't the beginning of AI, they're kind of the latest iteration of it. I do also want to ask you, like if you think people sometimes are a little bit too optimistic when it comes to like the speed of event innovation, and stuff. Because I think what a lot of people think about AR and VR, especially, is that they're good, but they're not quite there yet. And that was the same sentiment in 2016 as it kind of is in 2024. And I think people think of event tech innovation as like an exponential line where it’s just going to go up rapidly. But do you think people kind of overestimate how quickly technology is going to change? You know, because we always see also those predictions from like the 1980s that we would have flying cars by now. So do you think there's often that thing where people are a little bit too excited and maybe get a little too ahead of themselves when it comes to new technology?
Dahlia El Gazzar
Yeah, I totally do. And I- Again, I don't think that you know… You can get excited about innovation or flying cars. It doesn't necessarily have to impact you, except if it's in a great Sci-Fi movie. But yeah, so we have to be careful when we talk about the speed of innovation. The speed of innovation when it comes to event technology, is really based on user needs, as well as you know, a little future-forward, but not that much.
Because what's happening at the moment is sometimes the acceleration of how tech is evolving, is not the same speed as at how users are adopting it. And so there's nothing innovative right now except how the users are using the technology. You can have the same-old same-old registration, but maybe it has an AI-embed. So it has a little bit more proactive predictions, or you know, mapping is different, or it's giving you data analytics, like, real time. And the user has to embrace that. And the user is going to have to be more agile than before. You know?
And what's pushing that is their end user, like their attendees. If you're going to change the agenda, you better believe it, if you don't change the mobile app, and the agenda is not changed, or the breakout room doesn't change, and they go to the wrong room. Guess what's going to happen? They're going to be, you know, disappointed, they're not going to think of it as…
And so we can't be put in a predicament where if you have a way where tech is changing, or where it can enable you in a quicker way that you don't take advantage of it. So it's the speed from the user, not the speed only from the technology.
Logan Pratt
Do you think then that companies need to focus more on kind of innovating their technology not to make the technology better, but to make it more accessible for people? Like is that kind of going to be what we see in the next few years is like, you know, “AI is here. But we need to make it easier for people to use,” like in areas like Chat GPT and stuff.
Dahlia El Gazzar
I think it's already easy to use. I think what's happening though, is the embracing it and understanding what you can do with it, that's what's going to slow people down. So like, I think it's like Allie K. Miller, who I think is like the godmother of AI. She has an amazing voice about AI, where she's like “66% of leaders of corporations are still trying to figure out how to embrace AI in their business.” We're still at the tip of the iceberg with that.
If we take the same percentage within our own industry, I bet you it's less. I think it's less because people are fearful, still, of it. And they're already very much entrenched in their own ways of doing things. You know, Excel sheet is the biggest competitor to a lot of event management companies that are out there. Right? So we need to… Even though there is an AI embed in there, like you can use Chat GPT within your Google Sheets, and you'll be fine. But I think what our event professionals still need to understand is they have to leave time aside to make change with how they use technology and how they use enabling tools. AI is an embed of that. And also have set aside time to go back to their tech companies and ask them “What are you doing different with other clients? Not with me as a client, but with others, that you can help me strategize better, be more creative, make more money, make more members happy,” for example. And I don't know if they give themselves enough time to sit to do that.
Logan Pratt
And yeah I think there is still a lot of fear with people about about AI and kind of what it represents. So I also want to ask you, you go to a lot of like industry events, and you're very out there in the industry. And I'm sure people ask you questions and stuff about, you know, event technology and event marketing. What are the questions that you most get often at industry events? And actually, what are the questions you think people should be asking about event technology and event marketing that you don't really see anybody talk about a lot.
Dahlia El Gazzar
So I am totally against RFPs. And I think what is needed is smarter questions, more of the roadmap of a tech company, rather than just the capabilities. And so, things to ask an event tech company is like “What is in the three-to-six-month to one-year roadmap? What are you going to do that's actually going to elevate my usage of the platform even more?” And we're talking about this for like new companies that you're vetting or older companies that you have already in your tech stack. I think the other questions to ask is, “How are you using AI? What is that going to do to empower data analytics? What can you do with real-time insights for me?” Uptime security are major questions to be asked.
I would also ask “Because of the the whole turbulence that we're having in the event tech world, what is your exit strategy if there is one? How involved is your leadership with client relationships? What are you doing on integrating with marketing technology, FinTech, all of that, so that it's not just a bubble anymore?” Because right now we're going into a tsunami, where mar-tech is going to come in our space, and then AI is going to look so tiny compared to like a bigger conversation to be had.
So like, I'll give you an example. What if Google does buy HubSpot? What is that going to do for those that are using HubSpot as their CRM? And HubSpot is already integrating with event technology, like event management systems like Cvent and Accelevents and blah, blah, blah, all of that. So that means that an event organizer all of a sudden needs to understand the bigger ecosystem that is happening.
So this is where I also, as an event planner or organizer, I would go back to the tech company and say, “Show me how this will work within a marketing ecosystem, or an enterprise solution ecosystem,” so that they can go back to the C-Suite, sit at the table and talk about event technology but in a bigger frame, if you will. Then the other like questions I always have my clients ask when we do due diligence with them, go to the tech company and ask them “How can I make more money? Show me what the return is on my investment with you. Give me creative ideas on how to increase adoption or retention on the technology like a mobile app, for example?”
Logan Pratt
Well, yeah, if you ever wanted to know what to ask Dahlia at an event, she just gave you a roadmap.
Dahlia El Gazzar
I've had it where like organizers would take me to a booth and say just “Dahlia will ask you the questions.” So that works.
Logan Pratt
I also want to ask you something else. Because last month we had a your friend Will Curran on. And he was talking a little bit about the role social media will play for event marketing in the future. And Will Curran, by the way, runs the Klik brand of Bizzabo, for those who don't know. And he was of the opinion that social media might actually be on the decline, and we might actually see new forms of event marketing showing up in new ways to kind of engage event attendees. Do you agree with him? Or do you still think social media has a big role to play in the future of event marketing.
Dahlia El Gazzar
I would not dismiss it as a marketing channel for an event. And then I would also, you know, really then focus… the whole idea of omni-channel I question. Where you have to be in all channels, multiple channels, etc. I do agree that social media is not getting, it's not taking a decline, if you will, on event marketing. It still needs to be addressed as a marketing channel, because you still have your stakeholders living there and that's how they prefer content or sound bites or updates, if you will. But I do think there is going to be other personalized marketing channels. Where even e-mail has to come to be a marketing channel, but more hyper-personalized. And I know that's a term that a lot of people are using at the moment.
But I also think that there is going to be, and I don't want to call them influencers, where there's going to be more of the credible sources that you, like, will follow around a show. And they are the marketing channel. So I don't know if influencer is the right word anymore for that. I think it's almost like a “event brand ambassador” or it's like… You know, it's almost like as if you're having your own personal, for an event, your own personal CNN news channel. Do you know what I mean? And also, it depends on the attendees. Like, who wouldn't want to have like someone reporting on like the back of the house for a certain show. Like I would die if there was a channel that would show me all the stuff that happens behind the scenes of like a “Money20/20 with Kathryn Frankson.” Like that is my dream right there, is like to have that… just insight but it's like for… it's almost private. Because it gives you that… I mean, we talk about FOMO all the time, but I want to know like what really is happening behind the scenes. Like, do you know what I'm saying?
Logan Pratt
Yeah, it almost sounds like you're almost describing a version of hybrid events as well, where like you have the in-person experience, and then you also have the supplemental, kind of online and virtual experience. Do you think that hybrid meetings then… like more of them should be adding hybrid components?
Dahlia El Gazzar
So I don't like the word hybrid. It's a pet peeve, that's one of them. Logan, you're gonna know all my pet peeves by the end of this session. So I don't know if it's a form of blended events. I think it’s almost like a community channel. But like, for… not everybody's invited to it unless they really want to and they tell you what they want from… You know, the exchange of information, or news or like updates, and how they want that content.
I think we're gonna get into this whole challenge of, you know… And again this is where event organizers, they need to up their game as marketers, or even those that can influence marketing. Where it's like, it's not a one size fits all anymore. And I think that's why Will is saying social media is on the decline. Because there's some people that mute it or tune out. They will want information. Like if I want information at a certain show, I would follow Will, Brendt, Adam Perry and Tess and Keith. that knowing that they're at the show, that would be my radio, that would be the frequency that I would like, you know, tune into.
Logan Pratt
I also think there's kind of this notion, as well, that people are kind of getting flooded in the digital space as well. Like on social media, you know, there's hundreds of companies, everyone's trying to compete for people's attention, as well. And you've kind of mentioned some methods that companies can use to kind of cut through that, like using influencers. Are there are there any other methods that companies can use to kind of, you know, cut through the noise of everyone trying to compete? You know, people get a million emails a day, people get a million social media notifications. So how can companies kind of reach people in a more direct way? And I think you've mentioned a couple of them already.
Dahlia El Gazzar
So the key here is you have to ask. If I want to tap into how, you know, Logan wants to tune into news from a certain event, I would just ask him. Even in registration to say, “How do you prefer your communication? Would you follow someone instead of having e-mail sent to you? Would you want text messages instead of giving up your cell, and then we blow up your cell with all these yucky messages? Do you want to have everything within a mobile app and you read at your own leisure? You know, do you want direct mail?” Like, you know, that also might be the thing where it's like, you know, a month out, here's everything. And it would be kind of cool, because this is not far from it, where you get to say, “I love graphic novels,” and all of a sudden you get something in the mail, and it's a graphic novel. You know? And it's personalized, and it has a little, you know, dude that looks like Logan. That would make you read it.
Logan Pratt
Yeah. That would be a very handsome fellow.
Dahlia El Gazzar
Absolutely. There was a virtual show called “Near Bound.” Where, right before the show, they had all the speakers give like insights and tips. And they had more information about the conference. And they created a book, a physical book, and sold it on Amazon for four bucks. And they sold out. Everybody wanted the book, it was a workbook, it had information in it. So maybe that's the route to go? Not for everybody. But you have to listen to your attendees.
Logan Pratt
Yeah, I think a lot of marketing professionals are kind of surprised at the resurgence of direct mail. Because it used to be kind of kind of the meme in the early 2000s that you would get a bunch of junk mail. And now it's like you get a bunch of junk e-mail. And then, you know, it's very rare that you would actually get direct mail a lot anymore, everything's online now. So I think I think a lot of people were surprised that, you know, everything old becomes new again. And that that's making a comeback.
Dahlia El Gazzar
One of Freeman's latest reports does talk about that there is a resurgence of direct mail of like nostalgia. And that was that was one of the items. But it has to be fun. Like if I do send you a graphic novel with a little Logan dude, you’d read that, you’d share it.
Logan Pratt
Yeah. So Dahlia I also want to ask you… just to kind of wrap things up a little bit. So this podcast is called Fast Forward, and I asked this of all of my guests, I want to ask you what new technologies you know, you're excited about. You know, everyone's talking about AI and but from what I kind of heard from you, you're kind of over AI and you're kind of looking ahead into like what's next in the industry. So what are you looking ahead to and what new technology is out there that excites you and you're like “This is this could be the next big thing.”
Dahlia El Gazzar
So I'm not over AI, what I want to see more of like how AI is going to be an embed in Fast Forward technologies. So anything that will personalize the experience where it is, it's on a different level than me just saying on a mobile app, “My agenda versus the overall program.” So it's serving up content, it's serving up content that's not even part of the program for me. So it's almost like knowing that I binge YouTube, for example, or TikTok, and I want that as an embed within a personal dashboard of “This is what will appeal to you.” So anything on the personalization side.
I think the other thing is any technology that is using content, and then using transcripts and putting it into sound bites and giving it to you in the sense of “Here's content that your attendees would read.” Like titles on a newsletter, copy here for email campaign, for example, for Logan or for the graphic novel. As well as any solutions that will personalize the information needed for an event team that is on-the-go, like on-site so that it gives them the insights that they need right away. That is the route that I see that would excite me about technology. I also think that having tech be part of martech, that is Fast Forward the future right now. So like, I say… Like if we meet next year, same time, you're probably going to have a lot of event tech companies acquired by more tech companies.
Logan Pratt
Interesting. Well, we'll have to meet in a year and see if that prediction comes true. Well, thank you so much Dahlia. Where can people find you if they want to hear more from you?
Dahlia El Gazzar
dahlia@dahliaplus.com or LinkedIn. I live on LinkedIn.
Logan Pratt
Awesome. All right. Well, thanks so much for taking the time today.
Dahlia El Gazzar
Thanks, Logan.
Logan Pratt
That was my conversation with Dahlia El Gazzar, one of the leading industry voices in event and marketing technology. Coming from a marketing background myself, it was fascinating to hear Dahlia talk about all of the new technology she’s excited about and how meeting and event marketers should be integrating technology into every aspect of their events.
As always, if you liked what you heard, you can check out more episodes of the Fast Forward podcast as well as other Meetings Today podcast interviews by visiting Meetingstoday.com/podcasts or finding us on Spotify. Thanks so much for listening.
