Are You on the Bus? Association Trends with KiKi L'Italien and Michael Butera
And now for something completely different...
Association meetings thought-leader KiKi L'Italien, editor-in-chief of Association Chat and VP of marketing and community engagement at Big Red M, has put together what promises to be quite the party bus experience in early August to shuttle ASAE Annual Meeting & Expo attendees from suburban D.C. to the convention in Cleveland, with conviviality and general merriment sure to ensue.
Discover how this outside-of-the-box networking road trip came together, and whether any DMOs or association-business craving properties along the way are marketing-savvy enough to provide the 2024 Association Chat Road Trip a reason for a pit stop.
L'Italien is joined by association consultancy vet Michael Butera, president and CEO of Association ActiVision, to discuss the current state of the segment, including a significant change to this year's ASAE Annual and some of the major challenges and opportunities ahead.
Are you on the bus?
Listen:
Related:
ASAE 2023: Thought Leader KiKi L'Italien Explores Key Issues Impacting the Association Segment
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Transcript:
Editors note: The following transcription was facilitated by AI program Otter.ai and proofed by our editors. Although it is very accurate, there inevitably will be some mistakes, so please consider that when reading. Thank you.
Tyler Davidson
Hello, and welcome to this meetings today Podcast. I'm Tyler Davidson, Vice President and Chief Content Director for Meetings Today. And joining us for today's program are two folks who really have a pulse on the association segment for many years. And that would be Kiki L'Italian who's the CEO and editor in chief of Association Chat. And as well as Michael Butera, CEO and owner of Association Activision. Thanks for joining us.
KiKi L'Italien
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, I'm excited to be here.
Tyler Davidson
Thanks. I think Kiki, why don't you explain what Association Chat is really quick for folks who might not be aware?
KiKi L'Italien
Yeah. Well, if they're not aware, why not? Association Chat been around since 2009. And it is an online community. So website and blog. We host events and educational content. It's a podcast. And it's also a book club. So if one of those things doesn't appeal to you something else must! I mean, I don't know what else right? But you have to get involved in associationchat.com.
Tyler Davidson
And I know the reason we're having this podcast right now is because I joined the weekly chat thing you do, I guess, on Thursday and got to meet Michael there. So, you know, definitely. It's already paying dividends for me anyway.
KiKi L'Italien
No, well, I think the lesson in all of this is we like to communicate, and there's a lot of talking that happens. So it's good. Lots of good people like Michael.
Tyler Davidson
And speaking of which, Michael. What is Association Activision?
Michael Butera
So we're a consulting enterprise. We work primarily with organizations, associations that are trying to be strategic in their thinking. You know, there's a big difference between strategic thinking and strategic planning. I mean, we really enjoy working with boards and executives, event planners and their teams to help them make sure that their mission is being achieved in the most efficient and effective way.
Tyler Davidson
Right. And so let's get to the fun stuff first. I mean, I've known you for many years, KiKi, and you're always thinking outside of the box on different stuff. So we have ASAE Annual coming up in Cleveland. And you thought, "Well, what the heck, let's hire a bus and drive there from from suburban D.C.," right?
KiKi L'Italien
Oh, my gosh. Well, I think when it kind of came together, we were talking about a group of people talking about, "Well, it's not that far to drive from D.C., right, to go to ASAE annual this year; it's in Cleveland, and from the DC area it's not too bad. And I had this dream of doing some kind of a road show road trip, something with Association Chat, where it's reporting from the road, and then it's Association Chat fans being involved. And this was the perfect opportunity.
43-seater bus, executive bus, and we have a driver, it has a bathroom on it, but we're gonna have bathroom breaks, there's lots of room for luggage. But the idea is this is like, "Well, why don't we start our networking and having fun and getting to, you know, talk and have fun on the way there before the conference even begins.
And so we have--I'm working with Deidre Daniel of the Interesting Conversations company to make sure that things are going to be very, very exciting all along the way. People are going to learn skills, they're going to learn things about each other, and they're not going to get bored. I can promise you that. So that's going to be a lot of fun. And we're driving through Pittsburgh, we're really hoping to have some kind of special something that happens when we go through Pittsburgh. It's kind of like, you know, along the way that we can do something fun there, but I'm not
You know, and it's one way some people were like, "Are you going to do it on the way back?" And I'm like, "Are you kidding? No." Have you been to ASAE Annual? No one wants to talk to anybody after three days of that. So yeah, no, we're going to get you there. And then people are gonna figure out their own way back. But we're full. We booked it and it was like, "I think in a week and a half, it was full.
So, and two big sponsors, the Interesting Conversations company, which is why I'm working with Deidre Daniels so much, and which is the perfect sort of thing for her--sort of a micro event that is keeping things interesting on wheels, right? And then also the other big sponsor is Big Red, which of course, you know, I have a good relationship with, and so they're the number-one sponsor there, too. So it's gonna be fun.
Tyler Davidson
You're gonna to get two buses next year.
KiKi L'Italien
I know, right? I know. Well, it's in LA next year, so we're gonna have to figure out something different. But yeah, people are talking about T shirts. We're talking about like little swag bags, and what's going to be included in those. And we're gonna have everyone's favorite snacks stashed on board. So yeah, the fun is already starting. The playlist, the collaborative playlist, has already been created. So we're starting already with that stuff.
Micael Butera
Well, if KiKi's doing it, it's gonna be one heck of a hoot, I can assure! I agree.
Tyler Davidson
So, you arrive in Cleveland for ASAE. Everyone's in a festive mood. What do you expect to see in ASAE, this year?
KiKi L'Italien
Oh, well, you know, what I'm already talking with people, different companies are organizing their parties and stuff. You know, at ASAE Annual, a big thing is making sure that everyone's wanting to connect and network. And so, you know, between the receptions, there's limited time for a lot of these companies to have their own their own social events and receptions at night.
But there's one night that's like the key night and I call it the night of parties. But every year in the schedule, there's just one night where all the different companies, a lot of tech companies, have had their big receptions and parties.
So figuring out like, what's going to be going on with that is going to be interesting--pacing myself. Last year, the big news was AI, so the sessions with AI were overflowing. I don't think that that's going to be any different this year. I think everyone's going to be lining up for those. But the difference is, this year, instead of figuring out what it is this time, where everybody goes. There are going to be a lot more questions. So I'm so curious to see how that's gonna go.
Tyler Davidson
It'll be interesting to see. Having covered this industry for so long, the tech aspect of it used to be such a smaller point of it. Now you go like to something like ASAE and it's like a third of the exhibit floor seems to be--a quarter?--are tech companies. So I wonder if you're gonna see a bunch of new sort of AI-focused tech companies there?
KiKi L'Italien
Oh, you know, I'm curious too. But I can tell you, I looked at the floor plan ahead of time and there's a huge chunk that is just nothing except for Higher Logic and all of the companies connected to Higher Logic, right? And then you know, you've got the Blue Cypress folks, and all the companies connected to Blue Cypress.
So you're right. You've got a lot of big competition for the destinations, which usually have the massive booths, too. So it'll be an interesting show floor for sure. And I think this year is the first year ASAE is not offering an expo hall-only pass, which is interesting, because that used to be an affordable way for people who might only be interested in conducting business on the show floor to go, so I'm curious how that's going to affect it?
Obviously, they're reporting numbers that are higher than then, you know, ever before, so I don't know. We'll find out Tyler, when we're there.
Tyler Davidson
What do you think the reasoning is for them to do that?
KiKi L'Italien
I don't know. I don't know. I think maybe...I knew a lot of people who would go and sign up.... for the expo hall pass. And then I wouldn't call it exactly suitcasing, but they would go through the expo hall like and after they would kind of linger in the hallways.
And that's where you have all these really great conversations and stuff. And I'm wondering if maybe ASAE said, "You know, maybe we crack down on that a little bit. We don't want to have to scan everybody all the time. But, you know, why don't we just make it so that it's like a full show?"
Michael Butera
I think good associations are experimenting with new ways to conduct their meetings, both whether they're on site, in-person, as they say, hybrid and the like. And so, watching an experiment like this will be interesting to see how it works. I think KiKi has probably hit on an item, you know. A lot of the what happens is in the hallway, at the bar...I think that the it's reasonable for them to think about new ways to bring people to the conference. They have the people who pay the full rate, enjoy it as much as people who might have paid some other reduced activity...
Tyler Davidson
I think they should have an event that's just hallways and bars, right?
KiKi L'Italien
As long as the internet works in the hallway.
Michael Butera
There you go. There you go. That's it.
Tyler Davidson
So, Michael, I mean, what are you seeing out there? What are people talking about in the association segment, as someone who follows it so closely?
Michael Butera
Well, in addition to, you know, advanced technologies, which you've already just kind of hit on--and that's a huge, huge topic--I think there are new issues about the role of governance in terms of how it's shaped. Our associations are primarily built on a model that's 100-plus years old, and we're in a whole new century. And so the realities of the 21st century are not the way it was in the 20th century. Governance is undergoing massive change in the relationship. While we've always talked about it between the chief executive and the board, I think it's beginning to change.
I think there's a large role for DEI, we're trying to come to grips with, you know, the changes in our society. I think globalization is a big issue, no matter how small the association, you know, the entire global world is work here. So I think that's a big issue as well. And I think there's a issue, which I think Kiki does, by the way, a fantastic job on finding new ways to communicate and engage with members.
We've been doing it the same way for, as I said, 100-plus years and times have changed. People have all this magic equipment now. And, you know, are we going to have large meetings and small meetings? Are we going to have small meetings? How do we make it affordable. And one other point, and that is the invasion of the private sector into the association world. The private sector is much more nimble than the association world where we're very tradition bound.
And traditions are fun. And traditions bring history. But sometimes they get in the way of taking the next step forward. And I think those are some of the issues that we're beginning to see.
Tyler Davidson
And I know we were talking Thursday in our discussion that KiKi set up, but how do you make the case to especially younger people that associations are viable and important to their careers when they just might think, "I'll just Google it, right? I don't need to go to a meeting."
Michael Butera
Right, right. And I think that there's also the, there's really a challenge, I think, for our society as a whole, to figure out right now, better ways to interact and engage so that people aren't so isolated, and that they actually seek out that socializing and connecting and all of that--associations are supposed to be so good at that. And we're really supposed to be able to provide and empower people, you know, but provide these curated, this is where you're going to meet the people that are key to helping you in your industry and your career, and all of this type kind of stuff.
KiKi L'Italien
And now, we should be even better than we've ever been before because we've got....you know, to Michael's point...before, we have all of these great tech tools that are supposed to help us customize, personalize, identify special segments and cater to all of those different segments of people. And yet, still, we seem to really struggle with the best way to go about doing that.
And as far as making it relevant and something that people who are younger are even interested at all in becoming a part of, I mean, I think we first have to prove that we're still relevant and important to the people who are older, who are already a part of it, who say, you know, "Hello, new person that's come into our organization, I'm going to spend x amount of dollars for you to join this association. Because I think it's important, a critical piece of your professional development, to be a part of this community.
If they don't feel like that, then that invite and that direction is never going to come, so that's that's a real struggle right now, too. You have to prove to the people that are already there, that are already in those associations, that it's worthy, invaluable, right?
Michael Butera
You know, we're in an interesting time. We have this huge new generation, you know, and we haven't even talked about the Alpha Generation, these people born after 2000, or 2004, whatever it is, and we have this very old generation and people are living longer, and they don't retire when they used to retire, they stick around. I'm a product of that. So we have to find ways to engage people, that bring in the young people.
So those who have been around for a while have to find ways to make room, so to speak. And younger people don't want to just, you know, be a member and go to a conference and watch it, you know, go to a learning session. They want the part of it, have an opportunity to have a say in the operation. And so we're going to need to find mechanisms that do that.
I mean, think of this for a while. We've had executive committees and associations for as long as anybody can remember. The real reason for having the executive committees is you needed a small group to get together in between meetings. How long does it take to get everybody online to have a meeting these days? Not very long. That's a concept that needs played around with, and the younger people, they say, "Hey, ask me." And not only that, they may tell you what they think, which I think is wonderful. I think we need that. You know, it's kind of refreshing, the new blood that's there. And we can do it by and honoring people who've been around for a long time as well.
It doesn't have to be either/or. I think that's a bit of what we're struggling with. And we haven't even put into this conversation the changing demographics of the United States and the world. It's just different. Let's be honest, it's just different.
Tyler Davidson
Oh, go ahead, KKki.
KiKi L'Italien
No, I was just, I was actually--I didn't want to shift this off of the topic. So if we want to go like deeper into this, I get it.
Tyler Davidson
I was just wondering, are you seeing any associations out there that are sort of leaders in that they are really recognizing this? I mean, there's going to be all sorts of different associations, ones that have been around for 100 years, and they have a successful formula, and they have the usual suspects, doing things the usual way, and maybe, you know, maybe they think they may need to change something.
But I'm sure there's other ones that are out there that are at the forefront of this and really realized they need to change their formats, and everything about what they do. Do you think the association segment is taking that sort of message that we need to change to be relevant to heart?
KiKi L'Italien
Oh, I do. I really do. And I think because of the pressure that we have in a couple of other areas, we have to... I think that, you know, associations, even if they wanted to ignore it, I don't think that they can. And two of those pressures, one is all of the challenges that are facing the meetings that associations have. Meetings have been shaken up, not just because of COVID, but also because of the expense and travel uncertainty of what's happening because of climate change.
There is such a bevy of issues and, you know, also because of the inability to predict what the costs are going to be around it. Because everything between food and beverage and what you're allowed or not allowed to do is shifting and changing all the time. So I feel really badly for our meeting planners in that sort of way.
It's a challenge for many associations, a major part of how they bring revenue. And the other part is the the tech shifts, right? Because the technology shifts with AI is not leaving any industry, any place. You know, I'm hearing from every type of science or industry, anything you could possibly think of, even if you think it's something where people spend all of their time out in the field or, you know, the type of industry it is--the 'Logger Association,' Even if you think about these associations that are very traditional and don't necessarily think that AI is going to touch on that. It's wrong.
It's touching on everything and what that means for the business model and what that means for what associations are supposed to provide or don't provide, and how they divvied up their focus and what they invest in for technology, is it's really rocking association executives worlds right now. And it is changing the way that we look at what's going on with associations just as a whole.
Tyler Davidson
And Michael, you work with those association C-level, folks, right? Is that what you're hearing, too?
Michael Butera
Yeah, I couldn't agree more with what the KiKi just said about this impact of advanced technologies. First of all, the vast majority of associations are relatively small. What I mean by small is not necessarily the number of members they have, but their staffs are small. And their budgets are, you know, relatively small.
So you can't get away with spending the same kind of money on technology that you did 10 years ago. You can't get away with spending the same kind of money you did a few years ago. And what we need to do is rethink that entire piece. And in addition to that, relative to this technology thing, we have to begin to think of technology in the way associations once worked. Now you're in the content business associations for years and years and years, they were the owner, they were the purveyor, they were the place to go for the best content for whatever industry or discipline you were involved in.
And as we all said a little bit ago, you can Google anything these days. Now, it may not be 100%, right? It may not be the best piece of information, it may not even be ethically correct. But that's a whole new world for associations; they can't go out and just sell content anymore. The truth is they do have outstanding content. But the way it's delivered, the way it's curated, all of that will change as a result of technology.
And we have to be realistic about that. The association's aren't very good at experimenting with new things. You know, it's like, here's my favorite...you know...we all learn from failure, don't be afraid to fail. Well, that's true, except that that's not how we all act. When people fail, usually the thumb comes down some way or another. And I don't know if you're familiar with John Maxwell, but he wrote this book that I absolutely love. The title of the book is "Sometimes You Win, Sometimes You Learn." Ee doesn't say, sometimes you fail, sometimes you learn. And I think that's what associations are going through.
Now, they're in this huge learning phase. And just, you know, figuring out how to use the technology, and it changes so fast. Even AI; what AI was two, three years ago is not the same thing that AI is today. Generative AI, and there's all kinds of other mechanisms. Surely it will enhance efficiencies. The question we have is whether the efficiencies will breed more effectiveness? In other words, how do we use the tool to be more effective as well as efficient? And right now, you know, we haven't quite figured all of that out. And I think it has to do with the way associations are modeled early on. Technology was just a business function. If you went to any organization, technology was usually inside the business operation. Well, that certainly made sure that we could handle the number of members, the mailings, the dollars and cents, it didn't mean that we used it to promote the enterprise, to promote the content, to promote the engagement. And so, you know, now we have more independent technology.
So we have to work on this partnership thing. We're going to have a kind of any outtie world, they're going to be internal technologists, they're going to be external technologists, because no one technologist has all that the knowledge that new technologies bring. It's an amazingly vibrant and new industry that we have to learn to dramatically and properly use in the work that associations do.
Tyler Davidson
And I know when we were talking last week...one thing you said, Michael, is that the big guys, the big associations, could learn some lessons from the little ones. And that was fascinating to me. What would those lessons be?
Michael Butera
Well, I'll give you a couple, because we've actually touched on one of them already, and that is [being] engaged. The smaller associations are really experimenting with and learning new ways of engaging their membership.
I'll give a call-out here to one of the organizations that I know. It's the Council on Undergraduate Research. The CEO, there is a wonderful, competent individual, her name's Lindsay Curry. They are experimenting with all kinds of new ways to bring content. Some of the older organizations, they're so siloed, you know. We talk about this all the time, the old silos, but they exist. It's a truism that exists. And now we have to find ways to break through them.
One of the things I love about the work that KiKi does is that she's always doing this cross work. Okay, this is how it works. But we could also do this, you know, let's make sure that the right hand and the left hand actually, you know, connect with one another. That's what small organizations do. Another thing I think the small organizations are doing is they've learned how to better manage resources, when you have a lot of resources. Yeah, you use them as wisely as you can. But you don't have to think that if I blow this one, if you'll excuse the expression, that that might mean it might take me two or three years to get it back.
In a small organization experimentation is done with better risk management than we see in the largest organizations...think that just the reverse is true. And the other another point is CEOs, the chief executive officer, of the smaller association is much more engaged with both their staff and with their members than the larger organizations; larger organizations that are often into fundraising. You know, they make presentations, they do go out and meet people, but not like in a smaller organizations. In a smaller organization, they actually know people.
And I think another trend we see in the small organizations that we don't see in the larger ones is smaller organizations tend to form a task force with specific points of interest or need, that only exist for the time it takes for that particular item to be dealt with. In a large organization, it seems like every task force turns into a committee that lasts forever. We have to learn to shed some of those old those old committees that no longer serve a purpose, even though there's probably a small constituency, for that entity, all of those areas business model, the way they interact with their boards, the way they engage their members, particularly younger members that you mentioned earlier. I think the smaller associations are doing a much better job. And they're in a learning mode. They're constantly learning because they can't afford not to. The bigger the bigger guys, you know, they have some leeway there that we don't talk about because everybody's afraid to say it.
I mean, think of my business model. So I'm in consulting. If large organizations think I'm saying they don't do this, they'll say that they don't need to talk to them anymore. You know, they want somebody that almost confirms the way they do things. I'm not into confirming, I'm into, you know, facilitating new conversations, working with them to achieve new ideas...which I don't think is always true in the larger organizations.
KiKi L'Italien
I'm gonna build off of what you're saying there and thinking about those younger members or cross, you know, prospects that could be members...one thing that associations have to get better at doing if we want those younger members to come and join and stay is that I think ... that we're not very good about introducing and making those meaningful connections easier for people to make. We sort of throw people in a room with coffee urns and we say, or a bar and we say, have at it,, you know, there's a bunch of people you might want to meet in here. Good luck finding them. And I think that's not okay for younger members who are coming in and they're saying, "Now I kind of need to know a little bit more going into this. How am I going to get value out of this time?" They don't have the patience, I don't think, to sort of wait it out, pay their dues, and eventually imagine that they're going to make the connections that they need to make.
And I also don't think that they have been brought up in a time where there is that expectation that you're on your own to sort of figure this stuff out. I think they expect that you're going to help them to create those connections. And as associations, we have the ability to do a better job of that. How many of us are focused on making that happen? I don't know. But those in-person meetings, that ability to connect people and have meaningful, curated experiences. That's an association value prop that you really can't deny. But we as associations, we have to follow up, and we have to do a better job of making that connection.
Michael Butera
You know, I agree entirely with what KiKi said there. And there's an interesting thing going on in society in general, about this younger generation--this is not a hit on them. This is what has happened. Because of the pandemic, because of the early age at which they get these magic devices, you know, called the smartphones and the like. They've spent a lot of time online, and now their psychiatrists and sociologists and educators are saying, "Hey, you know, this is a good thing. However, it's not as personal as we sometimes think." And so the personal interactions are very different.
I always I tell a story, I'll do this very quickly. When I was a youngster and I wanted to go out and play ball, I picked up my glove, found a ball walked around the neighborhood, found as many kids as I could. We walked down to the school yard, you know, if we only had 12 kids, and we wanted to play baseball, we put six on each side, made up a few new rules so we could play with six. Today. you know, everything's organized for them. You can't just go down to the field, you have to sign up. There's all kinds of security.
There are reasons for all this. I'm not arguing about that. But that is the kind of thing that we have to recognize as we begin to engage this younger generation. They are smarter than we ever were. They have more information than we ever had. They are technically more competent than we have ever been. And now we have to engage them in the world... not the world we were in but the world that is yet to come? We have to keep our eyes on the future. And we spent way too much time hobbling around in the past.
Tyler Davidson
Excellent. And I think, you know, I could keep talking for another three or four hours with you guys, because you are the font of wisdom in the association segment. But, you know, we should probably get ready to jump off here. But you know, maybe just closing thoughts.
I just don't know how important this is of a topic anymore. I imagine it is but, you know, we're straight into the election season. Our society is probably divided as never before, is what you always hear. And then you have associations who are like smack dab in the middle of this political grandstanding season, where there are sure to be volatile issues coming up. And do they cancel their meeting and XYZ destination because of this or that?
That's a huge issue for associations and destinations. What is kind of the latest on that you're hearing, and any parting thoughts?
KiKi L'Italien
Well, you know, I serve on a founding board member for Social Offset. So you know, a little disclaimer upfront about that. But I can tell you that all of the destinations that signed up to help sponsor and support Social Offset. They all signed on again, right. And I think the reason is because that is still an issue that's still very much a struggle for associations...
We've got all this change in technology and society and all these different issues coming out of Covid. And then, of course, with the political, and whether it's legislation or what's going on and who's going into office, there's a lot of turmoil there. It seems like no, there is no executive director that's just going home and sleeping easy anymore. right?
It's tough. So I think that that's very much still an issue. I can tell you from the Social Offset side that we're hearing and seeing a lot of those things still coming up in the news, and associations that are still making decisions about where they are not going to go based upon some of those things.
But I also think that people, you know, I think we're so tired. As a whole, I think, psychologically, people, and especially in the United States, are really tired, because we've been through this political running the gamut. And all of these societal shifts, again, I won't go into the details, but like, the ups and downs of like, our we're building out department within an association, and now we're not, you know, like, how are we doing? What are we investing in? What are we supposed to be focused on?
These things are shifting so much, Tyler, that like, I think that, yes, that is definitely still an issue with the destinations. I think it will be for a long time. And what I'm happy about is I'm happy that there are more and more solutions, and more and more ways forward to think about how you can work together and figure out an answer. But I don't really see an end to the change. the massive change. happening anytime soon.
Michael Butera
Let me be brief. First of all, I want to be associated with what KiKi just said. But in addition to that, let me add this There are technical problems associated with the tax status of organizations. I don't want to go into it, but you know, there's a C4, C3, a C6-- let's set that aside for a second. There are three broad trends that are affecting everything that we're talking about here.
First is globalization, which is a huge issue in terms of a fight within our social structure. There are people who are just not as interested in it, you know, don't want to hear about all these other cultures....
The second one we've spent some time on today, and that is advanced technologies. You just can't get away from it. We've always had new technologies. The ones that are coming forward now are more complex, and they're more far-reaching than any before. And that is causing some of the problems we have in society as well.
And the third one is, there was a time when people kind of went to school, they got their bachelor's degree or they got a technical degree, you know, maybe some of them got PhDs and so forth. There is no terminal degree in today's world. We must always be learning. And there's a struggle over that idea that we must always be learning. I got a job. I want to work from, you know, nine to four, and I don't want to do anything else. That's affecting all of us. And so you know, where you hold a meeting, and all those kinds of things. Who you travel with--have fun on the bus, KiKi--and so forth and so on. So, yes, it's affecting us.
I think that the association world will capture what's going on, we'll learn to understand it. The question is whether or not they're brave enough to take new steps forward and take a little bit of risk. If they do that, those young people, the old people, their view by society will be greatly enhanced, and they will continue to do the fine job they've done for communities and further areas. All over the world....
Tyler Davidson
Well, on that positive note, I think we'll end it here. Thanks for joining us today. I'm
KiKi L'Italien
So happy to be here and I'm so thankful that you had us come on, I'm really appreciative of it and definitely, I don't know if people will be able to see this, but I'm pointing up at Michael--definitely having Michael on was such a great great idea...great conversation.
Michael Butera
Yeah, thanks for the invite, Tyler, and Kiki anytime I can be associated with you, I'll take it.
Tyler Davidson
And likewise, me with you guys. So that was Michael Butera, CEO and owner of Association Activision, as well as KiKi L'Italien, CEO and editor in chief of Association Chat. Where can we find Association Chat?
KiKi L'Italien
Associationchat.com.
Tyler Davidson
And how about Association Activision?
Michael Butera
AssociationActivision.com.
Tyler Davidson
You guys are marketing geniuses...
KiKi L'Italien
Virtual high fives.
Tyler Davidson
Well, thanks for joining us. I'm Tyler Davidson, Vice President and Chief Content Director for Meetings Today. And thank you for joining us for this Meetings Today Podcast. If you're interested in any of our other podcasts we've done with meetings and events industry leaders, head on over to MeetingsToday.com and check out our podcast section. So, thanks for joining us today, and no matter what you're up to with the rest of it, go out and make it great.
