The Culture Shift: Unmask Leadership by Meeting People Where They Really Are

Season 6, Episode 7

Featured Guest: Pamela Brunson, President, Wolfgang Puck Catering

What does real leadership look like when people can bring their full selves to work? Pamela Brunson, president of Wolfgang Puck Catering, unpacks how building a culture where people feel truly supported—meeting them where they are, leaning on your team and leading by example—can transform leadership and company culture.

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Meet Our Guest:

Pam Brunson has enjoyed the opportunity to participate in the growth and evolution of the Wolfgang Puck Companies over the last three decades. 

A California native, she was hired as Wolfgang's personal assistant at Spago Hollywood after graduating from UCLA. Through observation and experience, she gained knowledge of all areas of restaurant management in the entrepreneurial environment, including media relations, special events and operations. 

Pamela opened Granita restaurant in Malibu and worked as general manager there for four years. In 1996, she returned to Spago to develop the catering department and helped lead the transition of Spago to its new home in Beverly Hills. Working with gifted chefs Matt Bencivenga and Lee Hefter, Pamela helped to grow the off-premise catering business in Los Angeles. 

Working with the founders to expand Wolfgang Puck Catering from a fledgling company to successful national enterprise, Brunson oversees the national Wolfgang Puck Catering team, focusing on delivering welcoming hospitality to clients and associates. Pam leads company strategy and culture, and engagement with our client partners.

Connect With Pam:

LinkedIn
Instagram: @wpcatering
Facebook
Website

More About Our Host:

Courtney believes that transforming past experiences into impactful conversations through raw, authentic storytelling challenges the status quo, connects people from all walks of life and results in great change for the world.

Courtney is the youngest member to have ever been elected to Meeting Professionals International’s (MPI) International Board of Directors.

She is the recipient of Smart Meetings’ Entrepreneur Award, MeetingsNet’s Changemaker Award, the Association for Women in Events (AWE) Disruptor Award, the MPI Chairman’s Award and MPI RISE Award.

Named Collaborate and Connect Magazine’s 40 under 40 and a Meetings Today Trendsetter.

Recognized as one of the event industry’s most impactful change-makers, Courtney serves on the Events Industry Sexual Harassment Task Force, AWE’s Board of Directors, MPI’s Women’s Advisory Board, is a Meetings Mean Business Ambassador and is the co-founder of the award-winning movement, #MeetingsToo.

Courtney was named as a 2020 Meetings Trendsetter by Meetings Today.

Connect With Courtney:

Website
LinkedIn
Instagram: @courtneyonstage
Twitter: @courtneyonstage
Facebook

Transcript:

Editors note: The following transcription was facilitated by AI program Otter.ai and proofed by our editors. Although it is very accurate, there inevitably will be some mistakes, so please consider that when reading. Thank you.

Courtney Stanley

Welcome back to Dare to Interrupt, the podcast that dives deep into the personal and professional stories of women defining leadership in the events, hospitality and tourism industry. I'm your host, Courtney Stanley, and today's guest is a powerhouse who has helped shape one of the most iconic names in food and hospitality. 

Pamela Brunson began her career as Wolfgang Puck's personal assistant and has spent the last three decades rising through the ranks to become president of Wolfgang Puck catering. Along the way, she's navigated industry evolution, personal transformation and the challenges of leading with both grit and alignment. 

In this episode, Pamela shares how embracing curiosity, meeting people where they are, and building true support systems transformed her approach to leadership and why leading with authenticity and care is essential in today's high pressure world, whether you are early in your career or navigating your own reinvention, this conversation is full of the kind of hard earned wisdom that stays with you. 

Let's dive in. Welcome to the show. Pam, how are you?

Pam Brunson  

I'm great. Thank you so much for having me. 

Courtney Stanley

Oh my gosh. It's such a pleasure having you on here, and I'm so glad that we got connected. There's so much that I feel like I have to ask today, and so much that our audience is excited to learn. So let's just start at the beginning. 

You began your journey with Wolfgang Puck as his personal assistant and are now leading the entire catering enterprise. What do you think it was about that environment or about you that allowed you to grow and evolve with the company so profoundly over the years,

Pam Brunson

I think a couple of things, and it's a fun question to reflect on. I think it was a different time. When I started there weren't so many obvious structures or growth opportunities in place for a chef like Wolfgang in the restaurant industry. He was really building a vision of what that empire, if you will, could look like. And so there weren't specific roles or ideas of what that could be. And so I was also the type of person that wanted to dive in and pick up new learning opportunities. 

So, I volunteered to do the payroll. I helped out when the bookkeeper was on vacation. I learned how to do private events. I helped work on a cookbook. So, anytime there was an opportunity to try something new, I raised my hand or I inserted myself in some way to be able to have a little more exposure and adventure. 

And so that was really fantastic. I do still think that today, even though some of these businesses and companies maybe look a little bit more structured, those opportunities, for sure, still exist. For example, we've hired project managers into our team since the pandemic because we've had a lot of areas where we needed more organizational support, and that was a way to help a lot of our teams manage that. 

And so even though something looks kind of straightforward now, I think there's still a lot of room for growth there, and I think I maybe didn't know enough to be afraid to to put myself in those situations, and I don't discount the fact that I was in a really supportive environment as well. People encouraged me to to grow and to learn, and so I think that was really fortunate, certainly that started with Wolfgang and Barbara Lazarov at the time, who were running the business and continued through the years. 

Courtney Stanley

I mean, you said something that was really interesting to me. You said, I don't think I knew enough to be afraid. What is that? What does that mean to you?

Pam Brunson

So, I think there's some people who maybe see what their job description is and see other types of work, and might be interested, but don't exactly know how to approach that, or maybe are waiting to be asked or waiting to be shown, and know if I was naive, nosy--a combination of those things again--also I had the encouragement. So, I don't discount what a benefit that was, but, you know, I didn't, at the time, tell myself, "Oh, I don't. My dad says I can't balance my checkbook. I don't know anything about bookkeeping." I let someone teach me. Still not great with my own checkbook, but that's a different story.

Courtney Stanley

Be good enough.

Pam Brunson

Yeah, and so, there are some things, you know, I didn't end up maybe pursuing as much. I never was really great at the steps of service training. I couldn't jump behind a bar and fulfill that role the way you know our team could, but I did find areas where I could help and support those team members and understand at least what their role was. Yeah. 

Courtney Stanley

Oh, Pam, you have such an impressive career, and yet I find you to be such a humble person. And even the way that you look back at your career, when you say things like, "Maybe I was nosy and naive," and to me, I'm like, or you were curious and bold, you know, like, unfiltered, undated, just going for whatever was in front of you because you wanted to learn. 

And it seems like curiosity is probably going to be a trend in the story today, that we uncover where turning over new beliefs and self development and growth and looking to that next level, I think, is probably a pretty powerful part of your story, and a big reason for how you did get to where you are today. 

Now, I know that you have you've witnessed the evolution of not just the company, but also the industry. What has surprised you most about how hospitality has changed over the last few decades, and what do you think has remained the same at its core?

Pam Brunson 

I think my experience is a microcosm of that, or my perspective is a microcosm of that. Wolfgang had so many firsts, and I've spent my whole career with him. So that is my perspective. Wolfgang had so many firsts, right? The first Gourmet Pizza, the first Asian fusion restaurant at TSUNO, and really in a lot of ways, was the first celebrity chef, although he always thought of himself as just a chef. 

And really he was the first well known chef to bring a restaurant-style of experience into the events business. We started doing social events out of the restaurant and moved into more off-premise catering, and then moved into a more kind of formalized contract services type of experience. And it's always been for him, about what does the restaurant experience really mean? 

It's about creating those memories for people, having really delicious food with great ingredients, and gathering people together around a table. I think those things have remained consistent, and that continues to be our North Star, with all the different growth areas we've had, we really still try to keep it shiny on the outside, but we do talk a lot about how we're still pretty scrappy and running hard on the inside.

I think that's a defining part of our culture, is the passion that we have to make sure that those memories are wonderful and the food is delicious, and all those goals are achieved.

I think what's changed for for the industry overall, is the guest experience. [It] has expanded in so many ways. There's convenience, functionality, and then this really like immersive, type of layered experience that people are looking for in different moments. And so finding ways to stay true to ourselves and achieve those different goals in the right in the right times, or those different types of experiences in the right times, is really important.

And our business has really expanded in ways I don't think we would have imagined. We've participated in sports events like Super Bowl parties at the stadium and Formula One Grand Prix, which was amazing in just scale and scope. And we do some really creative corporate events, like Adobe MAX bash. We've also expanded into workplace dining, which started, again, with requests from some of our own clients, and so a totally different approach to when you have a restaurant, because you have the same people with you every day, and they want a little bit of the same thing, and they also want to keep it fresh and have some different things.

And it does feel very much like you're building relationships in those environments and in people's home and trying to really keep them engaged and satisfied.

We've also expanded into the NFL training facility for the Los Angeles Chargers, which were just wrapping our first year, and that was a really exciting opportunity to introduce great food to players who were very functional-focused from a nutrition perspective, and have had a lot of fun with that. And a great success on the player scorecard there. 

Courtney Stanley

That's awesome. My gosh, there's so many incredible projects and partnerships that the company has has worked with. And that's just impressive to hear. And I love the evolution, hearing about the evolution of the company as well. 

I want to change gears for a second here and dig a little bit more into your story. I know that you had shared with me previously that you said that your perspective has shifted from I can do that to I can enable, mobilize and teach. What sparked this mindset, mindset shift?

Pam Brunson  

So, starting as Wolfgang's assistant, and then moving into events and some different roles as the catering company grew on its own, I became the keeper of a lot of skills, information and sort of tasks, and just kind of compounded and compiled what hats I was wearing, and the knowledge I had just kind of based on accumulated experience, and while we were growing, I think that was fantastic, but it also gets to a point where your value is the things that you have experience with, versus maybe what could be. 

So, you know, I guess I would look back at...the tipping point to when both my parents were really ill, and everyone had these seasons in their family life, and mine was a little bit acute, and I found that I had to kind of drop everything and really support my team from a distance. And I was really, really fortunate to be both in a company and an environment with a boss who were very supportive and empathetic.

But what I what I realized at the time was I had been continuing to hold on to a lot of responsibilities that my team and others were perfectly capable of handling, and in many ways, did a much better job than I would have, or brought something fresh and new. And because I found myself in a situation several times where I kind of had to drop and run from from work, I really had to rethink how our team functions and how I contributed, and more of checking in and figuring out what I needed to be informed about, what I just needed to approve, and even really encouraging people to try things and making sure they understood it was okay to make a mistake. I know it's going to happen. I make mistakes all the time. Just go for it, and we'll figure it out later, if anything becomes concerning.

And so, when I came back into more of a regular workflow, everyone was a little bit settled into their new groove, and I could see how much more not just productive but but beneficial overall it was to the business, and it also gave me the opportunity to think a little bit more strategically about things and be helpful in motivating and coaching people.

Courtney Stanley

Well, first I want to say that that sounds like a very difficult time, avery stressful time, and also just a very emotional time where you had to just really change your day to day, and also just the way that you were able to show up in different spaces at that time, whether it was for your parents and with your family, or whether it was, you know, with the company and with your teammates.

And it sounds like one of the most important or valuable things to come out of that time was the ability to let your team really shine, and, you know, take on parts of leadership that maybe they hadn't before, and they were able to grow into those spaces and become even stronger and better than maybe they they were operating before, and I think that's a really cool outcome. 

How, how has this reframe, this mindset shift, impacted your leadership style and the way that you show up for your team today, after this experience.

Pam Brunson

I think once you've found yourself in a spot like that where you realize you have no reserves, really, emotional or physical brain space, you're definitely more empathetic to what other people are going through. And in my position now, I'm really aware of a lot of people's personal life challenges here and there, so I definitely try to pay that forward and make sure they know that we've got their back, but that we're also, you know, planning for what that support looks like, so that they can feel clarity about what's going to be available to them and what re-entry sort of looks like. 

I think those are kind of the times where it's not like a vacation, where you can necessarily just have things on pause and then come back to it , someone needs to keep things moving and you need to feel comfortable that you're not just coming back to a giant pile when you're already a little bit depleted and trying to recenter yourself, whether it's a personal experience or something with your family. 

So, I think that's really important, and we we talk about that a lot.

Traditionally, our industry, whether it's restaurants or events, I think is a little bit of an inhospitable place to work, and there's obviously a lot more conversation around that lately. But we're in a people business, so we are putting a lot of energy toward people's enjoyment of an experience. There's a lot of physicality to what we do, and it's hard to, especially in this communication cycle that we all live in, to control your time scale, and so we've given a lot of thought. I won't say we've made a ton of progress, but we talk about it, and we're trying to think about new ways of addressing balance and just really having empathy for each other. 

Our team's been talking for a few years about the concept of a growth mindset and the different pieces of that that can really benefit our work. So, looking for those small 1% improvements every day from any team member is kind of an obvious piece of growth mindset. But what I have found to be really important and helpful to our team is this kind of cycle of feedback and reflection and creating a culture that's open to and has some skill at giving and receiving feedback, is not that easy, and it's a mind shift for a lot of people, and creating some safety to be able to have those conversations. And in the events business, I think we're always like, Okay, we did it, running on to the next thing, and so finding the pause for a little look back and asking ourselves, what might we have done differently?

How would that have benefited the guest or colleagues? Whatever it is the outcome, finding that time is is really valuable, and so that's a work in progress, but we're really looking for that opportunity to create empathy between the departments of how we work together better.

Courtney Stanley

I am a huge fan of everything that you're saying when it comes to empathy in the workplace, because one of the keynotes that I deliver is all about empathy and leadership and how to really create structure around empathy, to provide the space, the time and the skills and the opportunities for people to lean into empathy, but also level up their own empathetic nature. 

And one of the one of the more interesting parts of data, or pieces of data, that I've stumbled across as I've done research on this topic is that the majority of employees do not feel that their leadership displays empathy. They feel that it may be talked about, but the talk isn't always walked, and so that demonstration of empathy and leadership is maybe a bit of a mess when it comes to the employee experience. 

So, I love that you're talking about, you know, really being intentional. And actually, one of my favorite things that you said was having a growth mindset and making small improvements over time that brought my head right to atomic habits and just the compound effect, and thinking about how it really could be that it's a teeny, tiny tweak that we make every single day where we're more intentional about having conversations or checking in with our teammates that could actually make a huge difference in the long run.

Pam Brunson

Well, I think you're 100% right. Really well said, and I do think it's challenging to spread those ideas throughout all the hourly positions, especially in our business, we do have a fair amount of on-call staff, as sometimes we work with temp agencies. 

So, how do we bring those concepts into play on a daily basis? But it's still work, right? We're here to perform a function and get things done and basically focus on, at minimum, the areas that were assigned to cover. 

One thing I think that's really helpful is we're, I'm constantly trying to focus on clarity and making sure that everyone has some vision as the bigger picture. And I find that the more I think I've talked about it, it's it's not enough, right? Or it hasn't filtered out enough. And think if everyone has a little bit more understanding of why, we're trying something this way, or why we're at this event, what are people celebrating-- whatever the why is of the moment, they're much more empowered to take ownership and make great decisions for themselves about how to get get through their shift or their work day, or mobilize their team. 

Courtney Stanley

Mm, hmm, I feel like we could talk about this for forever. Pam, because there's so much to dig into here, especially when it comes to systemizing empathy. You know, you talked about having maybe different agencies and just different components of the workforce that maybe aren't interacting as frequently as others, and that makes me also think about, you know, virtual and remote employees. 

And that was actually one of the questions that I got in my last empathy leadership workshop that I had done, was, what about remote staff? How do we ensure that we're able to display and demonstrate empathy with our remote staff if we're not actually able to have conversations in person and really understand that human connection that happens when we have meaningful conversation. 

And so, I do feel like there are so many approaches to this, but there are so many questions that come with this, too, and everybody's experience and perception of their experience with leadership and with empathy is is unique to them as well. So, I do think it's a very layered topic. But what I appreciate is that even if you know you're making those small changes, those 1% changes, every day, every week, every month, I do think that that makes a difference. And I do think that your comment around understanding how to give feedback, but also receive feedback, is not easy, but it's a worthwhile pursuit, and I think that that is a huge element to being able to create a workplace that feels like empathy is being demonstrated. So I think that that's fantastic.

Pam Brunson

Thank you. We're definitely trying, and I think one of the keys in there comes back to curiosity and asking good questions helps us get good feedback and signals to people that we're open to that, and also help them think about decisions that they're making every day, or maybe ways that they might want to grow all the different things. So, I think for myself and also for our team, just really encouraging people to bring that curiosity to work and ask questions in whatever the situation is, because it it inspires a much better conversation. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. And you had said, You'd said something about the hospitality industry not always operating in hospitable environments....

Courtney Stanley

Oh my goodness. The number of times that I have, you know, been in conversations where people express frustration around the culture, the environment, but also just feeling like it is such a service-focused role or industry, and a lot of the times can feel like a grind that is very thankless, and many people in our industry are used to that. They're used to giving constantly, not that they love it, but they're used to giving to their clients, to their teams, you know, and then, of course, they have their family and their friends and their communities at home. 

You've been in this industry for a long time. What do you feel has helped you to redefine and prioritize and protect what you need to do for yourself to keep yourself healthy and to keep that cup full. 

Pam Brunson

I definitely thrive on being with people, and I love being with our clients. I love being at events or in our accounts, but I think just spending time with our team is really the most energizing for me. That said, it's a lot and we're, you know, the work cycle. Now there's a lot of overlapping calls during the day, and so trying to kind of manage all that, to your point, is really challenging. And then to find work time, quiet time to get things done as well. 

So, I'm pretty intentional about whether it's weekends or downtime, I need to some quiet time. I need to shut down. My family allows me to have that, and is very supportive. I do prioritize fitness, of just making sure I move. I do Pilates and yoga, which are great. I try to get outside, which is a very peaceful place to be. And I'm working on my sleep, which is challenging, but I think those are some of the key areas, if we can focus on taking care of ourselves in the really fundamental ways, not eating garbage. 

A lot of us in our industry, right? We have all these beautiful meals in front of us, but we're eating over the trash can somewhere in the background. And so, you know, trying to just be good to ourselves and take those moments to prioritize our physical well being. I think I did our annual meeting a couple of years ago. I did a hand raise. The pandemic had been really tough for a lot of people, and I did a hand raise on when's the last time you had a checkup in the last year, and it was pretty disappointing. 

And so, we all committed in the room to each other, about 60 people, that we would get it together. And by last year, it was definitely a big improvement. So, just trying to not get too nosy, but hold each other accountable to some basic self care in the middle of busy times.

Courtney Stanley

That is the first time that I have ever heard anybody talk about, from a business perspective, serving the room, about having some sort of checkup, some sort of health checkup, and I love that. I love that so much, because I think that takes us back to the bottom line of each of us just being human beings. 

You know, we have to take care of our bodies and our minds before we're able to actually thrive as people in the workplace. And we can try to do it at the same time, but it's an important foundation to have, and I've never heard anybody say that they've asked their workforce or their team that question before, what was HR approved? Yeah, might not be, but I'm here for it. What was the response from the room when you asked that question? Other than you know, not many people raising their hands.

Pam Brunson

Well, I think we all saw who we were in that moment, because I was one who needed to commit to having a checkup and and also, and so I think that acknowledgement that we're all struggling to take care of ourselves, but that we have a room full of people who care about each other to help help each other be accountable. And some people had and continued to have some serious health issues, right, that they needed support with. And so, I think being able to be open about that as well.

You know, we were talking about the hard times and not having the reserves, and you should never feel like you have to fake it to come to work. You should be able to find a way to do your job and get the support that you need.

Courtney Stanley

What do you think it takes for somebody to feel like they can show up and take their mask off?

Pam Brunson

That's a great question. I  think in our industry and in the service industry, maybe in general, in our industry in particular, people are coming from all different types of life experiences, and some have been given much more support and safety as they evolved, and others have just had a lot more challenge and struggle. So, I think acknowledging that for people and helping them find ways to  ask questions and be themselves is is really important. 

So, I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but I think it just goes back to that empathy piece, right? Are we just trying to understand who this person is, where they're at and communicate with them on that level, whether it's, you know, clarity of expectations or understanding where they're struggling or what they're looking to get out of the opportunity?

Courtney Stanley

Yeah, I think I want to summarize and paraphrase the way that you answered the question, because I do think that there was something in there that's really important to call out, which is meeting people where they're at, when people are coming from all different types of experiences, which is exactly what you were saying. 

We can't necessarily expect them to show up and take their mask off in a space that they don't trust yet. So, I think that you know, meeting people where they're at and better understanding what their experiences have been up until that time that they step through the doors of this new culture is the first step. 

And then second to that, I would say, from my perspective, is that I do think a safe space really is created by leadership, and yes, it's created by everyone who's in the room, but I do think that the example is set by leadership, and that's why I really have appreciated so much of what you've shared today, because I think that there is a real effort to humanize the people that you're surrounded by, and by humanizing people and understanding them better, you're able to not only support your teammates, but you're also able To show them that it is okay and also encouraged for them to support themselves.

Pam Brunson

Well said, Thank you.

Courtney Stanley

No, I think we tag teamed that one. I think we tag teamed that one. I think it's such a great topic, and I really appreciate your perspective. This has been such a great conversation, and I would love to give you the floor to share any final words of wisdom, or if there's a piece of advice that you'd like to leave the audience with today to take with them in the days to come. I would love to hear that from you.

Pam Brunson

I think I've said it a few different ways, but my biggest advice would be, don't be afraid to ask. And sometimes I think people are worried they're bothering someone. They might be afraid that someone isn't available to them to ask a question, or that their question or concern isn't worthy. But if you if you really look around, there are lots of opportunities to find sponsors, coaches, allies in your life, people who have a different perspective on things that can share insight. I don't think I know anyone who wouldn't respond to an email, take a quick phone call, have a coffee, give you a referral, and maybe just help you check your own assumptions about whether it's your day to day or your future opportunities or a difficult situation that you're trying to manage.

So, take the curiosity and use it to form connections and really try to broaden your horizons in that way, I think people are very receptive to helping others, and personally, that's where I find the magic is, at this point in my career, anything I can do to help others grow is super satisfying.

Courtney Stanley

I love that. Yeah, you are not alone, and you don't have to do it alone, and you shouldn't do it alone. We're meant to be connected. I love that. That's right. I love that. 

Thank you so much. Pam, this has been an awesome conversation. I appreciate you sharing your experience with us and, of course, the audience. Thank you so much for tuning in. 

Be sure to share what you learned from this episode with us on social media by following at @meetingstoday and at @Courtneyon Stage, and be sure to never miss an episode by subscribing to Dare to Interrupt on any major podcast platform.

Don't be afraid to ask for help. Take care of yourselves and keep daring to interrupt my friends. Until next time.